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Bootstrap 2.3 Released
- instakill 14y agoNot sure how I feel about the swearing on the page.
- RaphiePS 14y agoWhy does it matter?
- shantanubala 14y agoThere are some work environments where using "shit" and "fuck" would be a turn-off -- not all places are very relaxed about that stuff. On a more personal note, it feels immature -- titling a section "Oh shit what" just for the sake of irony dilutes the meaning of what they're conveying. The info would be equally effective without it, and it's just filler. I know people just want to have fun, but why not save the swearing for personal blog posts rather than a large (and growing) open source project?
- blowski 14y agoI agree, it's gratuitous. Anyone with a swear filter (families, corporates) can't look at the documentation, and religious organisations may feel uncomfortable. Being open source, perhaps there's a fork opportunity for 'Bootstrap without the swearing'.
- SquareWheel 14y agoSounds juvenile. If I wasn't familiar with Bootstrap it'd certainly cause me pause.
- instakill 14y agoBecause it's gratuitous and unprofessional.
- stuaxo 14y agoIt's kind of lame - sure it was cool to swear when I was a teenager, but here it's pointless. If I'm reading a webcomic or some subreddit then fine.
- michaelkscott 14y agoIt's a huge turnoff.
- nemesisj 14y agoFor me, it's not so much that the profanity is offensive or anything - I have what many might consider to be a fairly dirty mouth. It's that their usage of profanity is lame. They're trying to be cool and funny, and it's very much neither of these. If they could actually managed the be humorous with profanity, then maybe I wouldn't mind it so much but this blog post really reeks of someone who is desperately trying to be funny and yet miserably fails.
- snaky 14y agoExactly how I felt about it. Like it was written by an old sad salesman with a pasted smile.
- rwl4 14y agoAnd it's quite gratuitous too. Take for example: Modals are all responsive and ____ now. How random.
- likeclockwork 14y agoIt's just a word.
- human_error 14y agoYes but it's unprofessional way to use it to describe context in this case. He's not talking with a friend. He's making an announcement.
- ehutch79 14y agoMaybe he thinks of you as a friend?
- fudged71 14y agoI agree. If it were a discussion that would totally fit, but it's an announcement so it feels strange be to "talked to" in that sort of abstract and casual tone. Although maybe it's just a cultural thing.
- digitalengineer 14y agoIf 'shit' and 'clusterfuck' makes you feel uncomfortable, don't visit NY. You'll have a terrible time.
- sakopov 14y agoIt's not about the language used, it's about the context. He's not expressing anger or making a humorous statement. He's just throwing f-bombs around to show that he's your "brah." I don't quite understand it, but every time i read something by @fat, i feel like i'm reading a YouTube comment from a 10-year-old.
- phoobahr 14y agosooo... Counter(re.findall(r"[^a-zA-Z]([a-zA-Z]+)[^a-zA-Z]",requests.get("http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2013/02/07/bootstrap-2-3-released/ http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2013/02/07/bootstrap-2-3-releas...).content.lower())) I see one occurrence of 'shit'. I'm not sure how I feel about your pansy ass semi-outrage of someone else's release page language. Oh, wait. I feel nothing, approximately what this entire conversation thread is worth.
- blowski 14y agoCtrl + F shows two. Time to update your regex-fu, or use simpler tools.
- lengads 14y agore.findall() returns all non-overlapping matches. We need to use a positive lookahead on the third part of the pattern to stop it from consuming the non-character: re.findall(r"[^a-zA-Z]([a-zA-Z]+)(?=[^a-zA-Z])", ..)
- instakill 14y agoIf my comment seemed like a semi-outrage then you sir/madam are a very sensitive person.
- mjohn 14y agoLove the use of Counter & requests, but you get 76 li elements with your regex - one of which contains another occurance.
- ralmeida 14y agoI too feel a little put off by this. I find it immature and gratuitious, like others have said in this thread. This made me recall that in the examples they have HTML comments reading "le javascript" and "le CSS" if I recall correctly. I have a personal pet peeve with people using 'Internet slang' outside _humor_ places on the Internet (some people I know overuse it to the point of annoyance), and so the discomfort I feel reading these terms sneaks up to my impressions of Bootstrap and its authors. Of course, rationally I know it's a good product made by outstanding people, so I still use it without refrain, though.
- jameswyse 14y agoIt's like they're celebrating their release from 'Twitter' brand.
- lmm 14y agoI liked the casual tone. It read like the sort of thing you'd actually say when explaining the framework, and required less mental effort to interpret than program documentation usually does.
- ChikkaChiChi 14y agoIf this is all you have to complain about, maybe its time you tried something new in your life instead of criticizing others on how they conduct theirs.
- ddoolin 14y agoBootstrap 3 will be mobile-first? Didn't they say they had NO plans to make Bootstrap mobile-first? Interesting.
- markdotto 14y agoI don't ever recall saying that, but if I did, I'm happy to have been wrong. Super stoked about the direction we're going.
- aleem 14y agoI am not sure what "mobile first" means, could you please explain what that means for the end-developers? The only thing to that effect I see right now is that responsive less files will no longer be separate from the core. That will probably mean that I will be forced to support mobile platforms. Is there more to it? (Aside, wishing someone would take a deeper look at https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/issues/4935 https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/issues/4935)
- ceejayoz 14y agoWhy on earth would that mean you'd be forced to support mobile platforms?
- aleem 14y agoThat should have read "forced to deal with mobile platforms". I currently have scenarios where I want the same version on the desktop and mobile. That's trivial because I simply don't include the responsive CSS file. In 3.0 the media queries are part of the core. So I can't just leave the responsive CSS out. Further, it's mobile-first so things like the navbar would be collapsed by default on a mobile device. I would be forced to negate that to get an uncollapsed navbar on a mobile device (as desktop version).
- DevoAKA 14y agoBut the point of mobile-collapsing navigation on mobile devices is for a better user experience. Why would you go out of your way to ignore that right away? And if you really didn't want it, you could always remove those lines of code from your file. Or comment them out so it's there when you revert.
- frisco 14y agoWhy the dropping of support for submenus? I find those really useful and it would be a pain to have to patch them back in.
- perry5000 14y agoAgreed. These are sorely needed for enterprise apps.
- wildchild 14y ago+1. Enterprise still on the way.
- nicpottier 14y agoYa, we use them quite a bit as well, would miss them for sure.
- gavinballard 14y agoSee Mark's comments on the Bootstrap 3 pull request: https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/pull/6342#issuecomment-12404863 https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/pull/6342#issuecomment-...
- z92 14y agoI am glad that they removed it. Submenu is very much a last generation tech. Awkward on mobile devices. And my one very strong reason to use bootstrap was to make the app mobile friendly. Removing its support is good because it was adding tons of CSS code.
- uptown 14y ago"Submenu is very much a last generation tech." That's an absurd generalization.
- egeozcan 14y agoThey were so handy to have for those corporate and/or data-oriented web sites and doc archives.
- dotborg 14y agoReplace all CSS transitions with JavaScript transitions. why?
- weareconvo 14y agoAn inadvisable goal of supporting ludicrously obsolete browsers?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- markdotto 14y agoIt's on our list to check it out because of some of lack of control CSS transitions afford us. Hacks with overflow hidden cause issues, mobile performance is rather spotty, and more. Not a guarantee, but we're considering it.
- fat 14y agoI'll probably write up something at length about this decision when/if it happens… but this is the current thinking: CSS transitions are just total shit to deal with in javascript. What people often don't realize is that there is an event for transitionEnd in javascript – but this isn't always fired in a reliable way – only when a transition successfully ends (which isn't all the time). This is incredibly problematic because often really important functionality is tied to the completion of transitions. Because these functions never finish, sometimes you're left with dead dom nodes or weird incomplete states. What's more, there isn't a performance benefit to using css transitions – the benefit is that they were suppose to be make transitions easier and provide a nice separation of style from logic – but they end up being incredibly more difficult and because of the necessary fallback logic, the styles end up leaking back into your logic anyways. It's a pain in the neck :/ With bootstrap we really just want to give everyone the most reliable product we can, and css transitions just aren't that. Also, from what I hear, the spec is basically dead in the water – and a reliable cancel event isn't in the works (unless this has changed in the last month or so)… which is more of a reason to consider alternatives. Most likely we will end up going with some sort of combination. CSS transitions when we don't need a reliable "complete" event – and css transitions when we don't really care (though this case is becoming more infrequent).
- jdorfman 14y agoNow up on bootstrapcdn.com
- robomartin 14y ago> Renamed all of the variables to use dashes instead of camelCase. I absolutely detest camelCase. It ranks down there with good-old Hungarian notation. So, I am now wondering, why this change? Are people finally coming to their senses?
- rtpg 14y agoI don't want to start a flame war, but I was wondering if there is a rationale for prefering dash-case? I have a hard time not writing in camelCase by default now.
- roel_v 14y ago"I don't want to start a flame war, but I was wondering if there is a rationale for prefering dash-case?" No, there isn't. It's one of those typical things that novice programmers fret about. Consistency within a code base is much more important than which style is used exactly. Having the style be a compile parameter would make sense to me, not switching from one to the other.
- beagle3 14y ago> Consistency within a code base is much more important than which style is used exactly. I know this is a commonly held belief, and I held it too for a short while. But then, I was managing a project that ran on both Linux (lower_case_name libraries), Windows (CapitalizeEachWord), had components in Python (ClassesAreLikeThis but variables_like_this), Java (camelCaseIsAnAbomination) and even some VB6 (don't even remember the convention). Utterly inconsistent. And it didn't make any difference to readability or maintainability, once people accepted that there actually is no single standard we can use. In my opinion, it's one of these things like, e.g. significant whitespace or C brace style, that people believe make a difference because they have an example - in which the difference is often not attributable to the feature being discussed.
- roel_v 14y agoWell within several modules of the same project, I guess it's inevitable, and not that problematic, especially not between several languages; but seeing (at the top of one function) int my_counter; char hostName[256]; double LIFESPAN; doesn't make for pleasant reading, I'm sure you agree.
- zopticity 14y agoMan, I love bootstrap. Not only is it pretty well design from the front end and back end. The less files that are architected are awesome, I wouldn't have thought of it on my own. The guys built it for full customization for advance programmers and dead simple for beginners. Keep up the good work! The only disadvantage to this is that all startups are now 'lazy' and begin using bootstrap default theme colors and styles -- which makes all website look the same. I'm not sure whether I feel that we're losing creativity for people who want to play with colors or we're losing the ability to actually code up some CSS to make things pretty. (Just my opinion). Dropping support for IE7 was a good idea. I believe that is the next browser we're killing after IE6, right? After all, who keeps versions of browser these days? I mean I lost count when Chrome updates for me -- and Firefox is on rapid release (18) now. I can't keep up remember all these numbers and browsers! Please keep up the good work! Bootstrap is an awesome framework for the web!
- visarga 14y agoMaybe they could add support for color scheme designers to the customized version (such as kuler.adobe.com or colorschemedesigner.com, which are works of art in my opinion). Also, some things are difficult to modify. What if I want two navbars, one with a different height than the other? Some tweaks seem pretty difficult to make.
- davidw 14y agoI'll take the time to say thanks too, since they seem to be following this. We've long had lots of open source infrastructure like Linux, Rails, Postgres, Apache, and so on and so forth that was very much a "by programmers, for programmers" affair. It's very nice to get some "design" infrastructure - Bootstrap has made my sites look a lot better, and I get compliments from people. So, a big thanks to the bootstrap guys!
- ZeroGravitas 14y agoPretty much everything in Bootstrap is gray-scale , with the exception of things with semantic function: red=error/danger, amber=caution, green=success. The only exceptions are "primary" buttons (which was blue by default but based on the link color the last time I checked), info which is pale blue, and code samples which are pink. I'm not in the slightest way artistic, but I feel if those (incredibly easily overriden) usages hold you back from expressing yourself with color then you're probably best not to bother and so it's a net-win either way.
- meerita 14y agoI am using the 3.0 branch without problems. I don't know why they don't merge it.
- ZeroGravitas 14y agoI'm working on a bootstrap 3 based project and tracking their development. They've been making fairly large changes (e.g. badges are gone, replaced with counters, labels are MIA as well but they're supposedly coming back) over the last month or so and have more to make on their roadmap. If you're not having any problems you must be very lucky and/or are only using a subset of the tools they provide, it's not going to be a drop in update for most people, hence the 3.0 version.
- bluetidepro 14y agoIt would be awesome if someone built a Bootstrap version converter. I'm currently using v2.2.2, and I simply don't really have the time to go through all the code to get it upgraded to the extent of making sure nothing breaks. Does anyone know the best way to do things like this, if a converter doesn't exist? It would be nice if the docs still had old versions, sort of like WordPress or PHP docs do, where you can see what is depreciated and how to change/upgrade things to newer versions.
- shawnphoffman 14y agoI've heard this before and I think it's a great topic. Is the addressable issue that there needs to be a way to "upgrade" to the newest version or is there a fundamental oversight into how we handle upgrades of amazing resources like this. I feel like there is an elegant solution out there but it just hasn't been adopted into CSS and JS yet.
- chrisrogers 14y agoThey have reasonable detail in their changelog -> https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/CHANGELOG.m...
- ZeroGravitas 14y agoThe old docs are tagged in github if you wanted to diff them.
- redbonsai 14y agoDefinitely agree. My company has been switching over to a centralized version of Bootstrap for our internal applications (over 300 in total, maybe 40 use Bootstrap so far). I oversee the upgrade process, and quickly/easily doing so remains a hurtle I have yet to gracefully overcome. The best solution I've been able to cook up is adapting their changelog into a step-by step tutorial for developers to use when upgrading, though I'd love to hear any suggestions on improving that process!
- michaelbuckbee 14y agoWe haven't announced it yet, but we're working on this as part of what we're doing at BootstrapHero - http://www.bootstraphero.com http://www.bootstraphero.com We were targeting to have it out more for 2.x to 3.0 as that will be a bigger jump.
- ChikkaChiChi 14y agoBootstrap allows developers to prototype something that looks good enough for production use without having to worry about a lot of the minutiae of layout. For that, I will always looooooooooooooove yoooooooooooooouuuuuuuu ooooooooooooh Iiiiiiiiiiii will always loooooooooove yooooooooooooouuuuuuuu. Thank you.
- circa 14y agoi love the fact that the blog post contains "oh shit what"
- hayksaakian 14y agoUnless you really need the changes in 2.3 I'd wait until 3 before jumping into a new bootstrap.