9 ms·

Microsoft Surface Pro Review

103 points by amartya916 14y ago

SirPulse 14y ago
Completely misunderstood the product. Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro with iPad. The right device to compare with is the MacBook air. both of them have the same capability and are in the same class. Expected better from you Anand
- jarcoal 14y ago
  Users will compare them, so anand should as well.
- martey 14y ago
  I am not sure that I understand your criticism of the review. The Surface Pro is repeatedly compared to the MacBook Air and other ultrabooks - there is even an entire page of the review titled "Surface Pro as a Windows 8 Notebook". I do not think that it is true that the Surface Pro has "the same capability" as a MacBook Air, out of the box. The two keyboards available for the Surface Pro, the "Touch Cover" and the "Type Cover" each cost more than $100 above the base price of the device. Anyone who does not buy them will be using a device that looks significantly more like an iPad than a MacBook Air.
  - pekk 14y ago
    'Looks like' does not mean 'has the same capability,' for example, in processing power
    - takluyver 14y ago
      Processing power is now largely irrelevant to most users. The experience is defined by the form factor - how big is the screen? Does it have a keyboard? Are the applications designed for touch use, or for a mouse? The Surface line, with keyboards as optional extras, are clearly intended to compete both as tablets and as laptops. So they're going to be compared with both categories.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro with a MacBook Air. You can't use the air on your lap like a standard laptop (I've tried with the RT...ouch!). But really, I'm not sure what to compare this against, or how it fits in between my iPad and MacBook Air. Which one does it replace?
  - igravious 14y ago
    Not to be glib. But it is _meant_ to replace both presumably. Now hear me out cuz I am no Microsoft fanboy, I haven't used Windows in years but I have to credit Microsoft for innovating. We always heap praise on Apple for the iPad, iPhone, and Macbook Air so I think we should praise Microsoft when they innovate too. Ok, fair enough, ne must innovate and hit the mark, have Microsoft hit the mark? Because it has touch and is the size of a tablet (like an iPad) and the power and form-factor of an ultra-book (like a Macbook Air) it seems obvious to me that it meant to replace both devices with one device. Why is this hard for folks to see? Now, is it a drop-in replacement? The battery (as Anand says) lets it down, so the answer is negative in this respect but you are saving on the cost of having to buy an iPad and a Macbook Air so the answer is positive in that respect. Comes with a pen for precision drawing input, positive. Runs Windows, negative (joke! ok, you can see the Linux guy coming out in me). Um, so on balance I'd have to say, intriguing device - has its plusses and minuses. If they up the battery life significantly with Surface Pro 2 and shrink it some more they are on to a definite winner and game changer. It'll _never_ be as portable as an iPad (because it has the guts of an ultrabook) so we need to get that out of our heads, all Microsoft needs to do is make it svelte _enough_. That's my take on the whole thing. Now back to me Gentoo server ...
  - nchlswu 14y ago
    That one data point doesn't mean it's a mistake to compare it with the MBA. It's "complete" functionality and more importantly, price after keyboard means the MBA comparison should be made. Comparisons to tablets and other hybrids should also be made. What I find interesting is the confusion about the product's positioning in the market. I am also confused and don't think it bodes well for the customer. At the base, it's most commonly known as a tablet, but the keyboard begins to confuse things. The moment you get into the Pro territory, the price confuses things even more. Even outside of the "RT/Pro" discussion, I'm not sure if it's lack of clear (existing) product category is beneficial for MS
- simonh 14y ago
  If this thing isn't in the same class as the iPad, doesn't compete with it and can't be compared to it, what on earth does it exist for?
  - GFischer 14y ago
    For another class of users (which may or may not exist in significant quantities), that need Windows application compatibility and on-the-go keyboard.
- amartya916 14y ago
  Someone actually mentioned this in the comments (the first one) and Anand said "The problem is our Windows 8 battery life suite only has one datapoint at this point: Acer's 13-inch S7 ultrabook, which I did include in a table below the graphs on the battery life page. I will try to run the 11-inch MBA this week/weekend in the new suite to get a good reference point though." So hopefully, the review will be updated.
bitsoda 14y ago
Who is this device for? It's a poor tablet due to its lackluster touch eco system, battery life, size, and weight. And it's a mediocre laptop that can't stay upright on an actual person's lap, and has a relatively small display for a computer that is meant to be placed on a flat surface. Furthermore, the pre-loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space, making the more expensive $999 option the only feasible choice. I don't get it. Why not spend that $999 buying a budget laptop that can outperform the Surface Pro, and an inexpensive tablet like a Nexus 7/10 or iPad mini? Design is about making compromises. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they chose the wrong ones.
- purplelobster 14y ago
  Because it's basically an ultrabook with a convenient tablet form factor. Honestly that's precisely what I need. I don't want one device for productivity and one for play, which is why I'd never buy an iPad. I'd prefer Linux, but I think Microsoft has done a good job with Win8, it's perfect for a device like this.
  - daliusd 14y ago
    I think it is too small for productivity. Yes, it is possible to work with small screen. I have experience working with 11, 13, 15 and bigger screens (each at least a year) and have achieved quite good results with each but 11-inch and less is not big enough for productivity. I encountered two problems: 1) some programs wants to use more screen. That's especially relevant for various IDEs and image manipulation programs. If you can work with simple text editor and command line, you are happy then. 2) too small keyboard. The smaller screen the smaller keyboard. Difference is 5-10% in typing speed but it is difference. Maybe for small person it is perfect size. Meanwhile I'm very happy with 13 inch ultrabook. Overall it is geek's wet dream to have device that is perfect size and perfect configuration at any moment. "Ubuntu for Android" (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android) is the same dream in different form. Currently I am as far from this dream as possible: 3 computers, several tables and several smartphones.
    - 14y ago
RyanZAG 14y ago
I can understand this product from the point of view of someone who spends most of the day on the road, but still needs to use their windows business software (common windows only sales software, etc). This is the identical market to the ultrabook/netbook segment. The ultrabooks would generally have better text input, while this surface pro tablet would have slightly better battery life and be lighter and easier to carry around (but not by much, really). Not too bad a product at all for this, and should get a number of sales from business users within a few years when it has been tried and tested by daring others in the respective companies. However, from any other POV, this product seems to fall flat. Unless you have to, nobody is going to use a win32 app on a tablet if they can use a similar iPad app designed for touch. Nobody will give up the battery life of a real tablet for the difficult to use win32 stylus programs, and the win8 apps just aren't there yet. So this device will fail to compete in the tablet sector for the identical reasons the RT tablet did not compete. It's just not as good a tablet for tablet uses as an iPad. Obviously it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment, it's just not capable enough. I don't see this device being any kind of success in the short term, but with revisions and company deals it may be able to corner the mobile business market in future - a very large market - if it survives that long with the politics at Microsoft and is able to reduce the price to compete with current budget business laptops.
- SirPulse 14y ago
  What do you mean " it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment, it's just not capable enough" ? What is it not capable of?
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    Gaming on it would certainly be sub-par with that hardware, and gaming accounts for a good chunk of the high-end PC market.
    - adamnemecek 14y ago
      Because it's obvious that gamers are Surface's prime target.
KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
2x the price but 5x the performance of an ipad4 (half the battery life but w/e). Sold. Edit: Wait, AND a wacom? OMG.
riffraff 14y ago
in one page http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695 http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695
mariusmg 14y ago
This is the first machine ever build that works great as a tablet, ultrabook AND desktop replacement . One machine to rule them all.
- fekberg 14y ago
  I agree. Can't wait to get my hands on one and use it as a replacement in meetings/demos/presentations just to see if it's better suited for that than my "portable" EliteBook.
nextparadigms 14y ago
I think TheVerge's conclusion [1] says exactly what I thought about Windows 8 and Windows 8 hybrids from day one: "It tries to do everything, but misses doing anything really well" Something like the Surface Pro has a lot of compromises, starting from the schizophrenic UI, to high price, too small screen to be productive on it, low battery on it, heat, noise, fans, and so on. It's not the "best of both worlds". It's the worst of both worlds. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-surface-pro-review http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-surface-p...
hayksaakian 14y ago
Why is this superior to having a windows ultrabook (buzzword, i know) + affordable tablet? Especially now with touch screen laptops, the only utility I see here is the lack of dedicated keyboard, but that's as big an advantage as disadvantage.
- pekk 14y ago
  I would love to have one of these to do graphics work on the go: runs all the industry stuff with some extra processing power, decent res, and Wacom input (compare to the cost of Cintiq). Hopefully they will be able to improve battery life in later models. But for programming, I can't really understand using a tablet at all, while a normal cheaper laptop will do just fine.
- skc 14y ago
  Because people may only want to carry a single device instead of two. Obviously with the poor battery life and weight the Pro doesn't quite get there, but it's clear this is the evolutionary path Microsoft is headed for. Things should get really interesting with each iteration of the device. For now, the device will be considered a flop though.
NZ_Matt 14y ago
This is a tempting device, but I'll probably wait for version 2. I feel like this is a step into the future where everyone carries one cloud connected device that can then be docked when you want to get serious work done. Is there an official dock that makes it simple to connect it to an extra monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc ?
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  Other manufacturers are also making similar devices. For example checkout the Lenovo Helix http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-helix/ http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-h... and here is CES quick look showing the different modes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yk3KyW_6Ug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yk3KyW_6Ug The keyboard base has USB 3 and displayport (separate from those on the "tablet" bit). They also have a USB 3 dock that then has video, audio, more USB etc ports.
  - Blara 14y ago
    I don't like the way that lenovo puts their "Fn" key where the (left) "Ctrl" key should be, other than that it looks nice
    - gregstoll 14y ago
      On my Lenovo laptop, there's a BIOS setting to swap them, which I was very happy to find!
      - Blara 14y ago
        I'll see if I can find that setting on my laptop as well :) thanks
        rogerbinns 14y ago
        Lenovo introduced the BIOS setting in late 2009. If you have an older system there may be an updated BIOS. Here is a video showing how to do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR955qVc068 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR955qVc068
dizzystar 14y ago
I think the surface is probably a great for what it is, but I think I'll dive for a Lenovo Yoga. I tried a Yoga at the store last week and I was totally smitten by it.
- tluyben2 14y ago
  Yes, I like that one too, but it suffers from the same big problem; battery life. I would buy the Yoga today if it had double the battery life.
  - dizzystar 14y ago
    Quick search shows about 5 1/2 hours with video + wifi running. It's not too shabby but I haven't really ran into a use case where this is a major issue for me yet. I generally use my tablet to read books or watch videos and I don't work in a situation where I'd get pulverized for not having a longer battery life where I wouldn't have access to a charger.
    - tluyben2 14y ago
      Me neither; I just find it annoying :) And like I said; when I buy a laptop which starts out with X hours battery life, it'll take less than a year to get to half of that. Only exception has been Fujitsu Lifebook laptops which, even after years (I still have a p1510 with the extended battery) it still has the same battery life and works like a charm.
- dustincoates 14y ago
  I have a Yoga and I love it. I find myself using it in tablet mode quite a bit (though never on the train like I might a Nexus 7) for things like reading, watching video, or keeping up recipes while I cook. For all of the criticism on notebook touchscreens--namely, that people don't want to touch an upright screen--I find that I am using the touchscreen when in "notebook mode." It's never tiring and it usually just makes sense. For example, I use it when I'm plugged into an external monitor a lot and I don't want to move my mouse all the way over to what's on the screen of the Yoga. My only complaint is that I find myself going to touch other screens and get disappointed that I can't.
tluyben2 14y ago
The price, flaky keyboard (everyone keeps writing about missing keystrokes; isn't that incredibly annoying?) and battery life put me off. Battery life puts me off most laptops; it's time for 10 hour laptops, not more ~5 ones (which, after a few months, will drop under 3). And as a tablet that's not really an option. Version 2 or 3 might be something I would buy, however the competition has now been kicked into this new reality (full power in a tablet). Exciting. So now up to Apple, Samsung, Asus, MS etc to make something with 10+ hours battery life, 2560x1600 resolution, tablet and laptop in one, with the performance of an i5/i7 :) Transformer Infinity is almost there besides the performance of course. For me that's almost never an issue as I value battery life much more, but in an ideal world I can take my entire environment with me even when there is no internet available (I compile in the cloud now). Edit: Wacom + pen would be a huge plus for my ideal machine. I wouldn't really care about the price for such a thing. Edit: maybe someone knows; is there some kind of solar panel tech in existence which can be put 'on' the entire laptop/tablet surface without you seeing it or being bothered by it? When I go for long walks I take my solar panel on my back which keeps my Android tablet loaded for hours more than it would normally do. It seems like a good idea to just put that in if it's possible?
mixmax 14y ago
Judging by the screenshots Microsoft still doesn't get design and why it's important. It's not just about polish, it's about a user experience where the overall design decisions saturate the whole device. Similar design elements must have the same look and feel, and behave in similar ways. The screenshot of the task manager looks like something from windows NT, the display appearance screenshot looks like win7, and the whole thing is glossed over by a new fancy design that seemingly is only a thin slice of beauty that reveals the ugly interior as soon as you start delving into the system. From a UI standpoint it looks like a complete mess, where the ugly head of legacy rears its head at every corner. This is the major differentiator between Apple and Microsoft, and is a large factor in the continued success of Apple. Microsoft doesn't seem to understand this at all.
- pavlov 14y ago
  Judging by the screenshots ... Why bother judging by the screenshots? There are plenty of actual Windows 8 devices out there. It's fairly pointless to post guesswork about the UI.
  - bandushrew 14y ago
    how do screen shots represent 'guesswork'?
    - halviti 14y ago
      User Interface is about user experience. You can't experience using a product with some photographs. Similarly, you can't pretend to be a judge of good design based on a couple of photographs. This guy was clearly just spouting an opinion based on nothing, and we shouldn't respond to such comments as if they deserve merit.
    - pavlov 14y ago
      Take a person who has never used iOS. Show her screenshots of the home screen and a few random Apple apps -- say, Find My Friends and Podcasts. Would you expect her to draw a reasonable conclusion of what it's like to use an iPhone and how the design works in practice? More likely, looking at screenshots would divert her attention to secondary things like the textures and illustrations used in the apps rather than the actual UI design.
pavlov 14y ago
I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's a Windows 8 Pro tablet with the Intel "Clover Trail" platform (dualcore 1.8 GHz Atom SOC). For me, it hits the perfect sweet spot. It's iPad-sized; there are no fans or vents; and I quite like the "Metro" touch apps because I'm already used to Windows Phone. At the same time the Clover Trail platform is fast enough to run Win32 desktop apps and the tablet comes with a pressure-sensitive Wacom pen, so it's a pretty great little machine for sketching and painting. I rather like the refreshed Office 2013 apps too, they're fine for mixed touch and pen input. The Thinkpad Tablet 2 is also much less expensive than the Surface Pro, so I'm very happy with this choice... On the other hand I realize that my needs are those of a minority. The market for 10-inch Wacom tablets is presumably not that great. But if there is demand for "pro" tablets where precision input and access to the existing Windows x86 ecosystem are requirements, then Clover Trail + Windows 8 could have some legs.
- nextparadigms 14y ago
  Atom is still way, way too slow for legacy programs, and that's supposed to be one of the "strengths" of x86 tablets. They may support them, but if they work slow on it, then it's all for nothing.
  - pavlov 14y ago
    The tablet feels about as powerful as a good x86 laptop from six years ago. Clover Trail is faster than previous Atoms, and it's certainly helped by having a Flash disk instead of a slow tiny hard drive. I haven't noticed a problem with Win32 desktop apps. It would certainly be too slow for something heavy-duty like the latest Visual Studio... But my use is more oriented towards Office, browsing and art software which it handles fine.
- tluyben2 14y ago
  That looks good actually. Does it make the promised 10 hour battery life from the reviews? Ah but the resolution is 1366x768, that's a fairly big turn off.
  - 14y ago
itsbits 14y ago
People here forgetting the fact that Surface is hafling..half tablet, half PC..so the design and UX you see has to meet both both requirements..That way i think Microsoft has done gr8 job..but problem is who needs halflings?
- manojlds 14y ago
  Not has to. It is more like will meet both requirements. It is the first step towards the future.
  - itsbits 14y ago
    do u really think there is a use of PC for a normal user in future?? The way i understand the common requirements for a user is watching videos; reading news, books, listening audio; playing games which all can be done by current touch devices..PCs may exist for developers etc..but tablets just take away the basic use of PC...
cubicle67 14y ago
Arstechnica review http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-with-windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-wit...
ishansharma 14y ago
I believe that Microsoft has too much legacy code in Windows to change it. At best, Metro is a slapped on interface on Windows. I have not used Surface but have a laptop with Windows 8. Hardware wise, Surface is quite good but Windows has two basic problems: 1. Legacy Code: No matter what, there will be some part of Windows that will behave oddly and not upto current standards. I use multiple Wi-Fi networks and my iPhone, iPad and my friend's Windows Phone automatically use proxy settings for that network. Windows 8 needs a manual change. 2. Slapped On Metro: Metro feels very unpolished. There are settings and other apps in Metro but real power still lies with classic Windows UI. Microsoft is presenting it as a "no compromises" approach but it feels like an all compromises approach.
rassene 14y ago
I think surface pro should be compared to the Acer W700 tablet which come with a i5-3317U processor and 4Gb of RAM. Somehow acer W700 manages to get 9 hours battery life. The w700 is also cheaper and comes with a dock, Bluetooth keybord, leather case, and HDMI to VGA adapter. http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-Tablet/dp/B009H1BI0O http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-Tablet...
mads 14y ago
I love the new Metro interface, when I am in my hot tub with my Lenovo Yoga, but I hate it, when I am using the Yoga as a laptop. Recently switched from Linux to Windows on my main laptop (driver proplems with Linux) and still using Linux on my development laptop, but I think Microsoft is on to something. Still needs improvement, no question... I had an iPad and it was kind of "too simple"... Dont know how to describe it.. With my current laptop (the Yoga, which has touch and doubles as tablet and laptop), I kind of have everything in one device... I can do tablet in the tub on in the bed and do development at my desk with one device.
b1daly 14y ago
Speaking personally only, I've had a change in perspective about the desirability of an all in one device. For along time I thought it would be cool if you could have a phone as your cpu, and dock it up to the form factor that appropriate for your context: tablet, notebook, desktop. As a pie in the sky vision. The surface pro, an actually here device seemed promising to me as a concept. In particular, the ability to do some work in a different physical position, (on the can, at the coffee shop, etc). The surface pro seems enticing at first glance as I could run my main working software (pro tools). It's dawning on me now lately though that I need a very optimized, particular environment to work with any semblance of efficiency. Powerful desktop, big monitor, custom set of input and pointing tools, the particular set of utilities installed and running, plus speakers, comfortable chair. And I need every thing in just the right spot. I need my desktop setup just so, I rely on Mac os x spaces. I have custom keyboard macros. When all this is just so, I can rock it, my efficiency goes way up. It's just not worth it try to do actual work at the coffee shop, because even if I can the experience is so sub optimal,I'd rather just skim the internet on my nexus 7, and wait till I'm at my studio to work. Buying a device that compromises both experiences, the long battery life, light to hold tablet, and the serious workstation is not an improvement. A nexus 7 is so cheap and light. I have a hand me down Mac book that does laptop stuff just fine if I really need to work portably. And my work station stays put, ready for heavy lifting. What is the advantage of a hybrid device if any of the use cases are worse than the stand-alones, if those use cases matter to you. The surface is a worse experience compared to the dedicated devices in all three form factors it's trying to compete in: desktop replacement, notebook, tablet. How is this a benefit? Most people who buy the surface pro are going to be serious users of computers. It's worth it to pay for good tools. It's not that hard to carry a 7inch tablet and a notebook. I could see for a student, who is very budget comscious maybe this be useful.
regalasiono 14y ago
This device is terrible. Get an iPad instead.
RexRollman 14y ago
I don't think I will buy this but I do like the idea of a tablet that can run Foobar2000.
jonheller 14y ago
Microsoft seems to be repeating many of the mistakes here of the pre iPad tablets, when there was a crazy in the mid 2000's or so of everyone trying to succeed with one. It's a machine that tries to be both and excels and neither.
cooldeal 14y ago
Sad to see this submission getting flagged just like it happens with any article that is not extremely negative on Microsoft. So even reviews of a Microsoft product are not welcome on HN. Many years ago, I read a comment on Reddit calling HN a bunch of Apple fanboys. After these years I have realized it mostly consists of Google and Apple fanboys and irrational. Why else would someone with good karma go out of their way to flag this _review_ from Anandtech of all people? I am sure people are waiting for the inevitable deprecating takes of Gruber, Marco, Siegler etc. on the Surface. Those will shoot straight up the front page.
- marknutter 14y ago
  How do you know if people are flagging the article?
  - tluyben2 14y ago
    I would like to know as well; this article ranked front page and #1 for quite a long time?
    - cooldeal 14y ago
      See my other comment here. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177366 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177366 Funnily, THAT story got flagged as well and is sitting on third page now.
- nivla 14y ago
  Its really interesting to see people who believe themselves as intellectually superior acting like 5 year olds when it comes to opinions that doesn't fit their stack. I started avoiding Reddit but I am increasingly going back to find news and discussions that gets flagged off from here. I hope there exists a place on the web, where news is served/discussed as facts minus all the fanboyisms. If not, I should make one for a better future.
chemmail 14y ago
Got a chance to try out the pro. Was really excited since I've litterly been waiting for something like this for 10 years starting with a tc1000 and 3 more tablets since then. I have many iPads but they are really just toys. unfortunately the pro needs just a bit more to get to the dream ms had since their first tablets. It needs more buttons, a back button and a page up/down scroll buttons on the side like a lot of tablets have. what's with the single front button? This isn't an iPad,even android has 4. The stand needs maybe 3 levels of adjustment. Size and weight of the rt are almost perfect maybe haswell can get us there. And one more thing, enough with this 16:9 aspect ratio, we aren't going to be watching tv shows on this thing (not that much anyways) give us 4:3 or 5:4 back so we can get some work done.

103 points by amartya916 14y ago

Completely misunderstood the product. Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro with iPad. The right device to compare with is the MacBook air. both of them have the same capability and are in the same class. Expected better from you Anand

jarcoal 14y ago
Users will compare them, so anand should as well.
martey 14y ago
I am not sure that I understand your criticism of the review. The Surface Pro is repeatedly compared to the MacBook Air and other ultrabooks - there is even an entire page of the review titled "Surface Pro as a Windows 8 Notebook". I do not think that it is true that the Surface Pro has "the same capability" as a MacBook Air, out of the box. The two keyboards available for the Surface Pro, the "Touch Cover" and the "Type Cover" each cost more than $100 above the base price of the device. Anyone who does not buy them will be using a device that looks significantly more like an iPad than a MacBook Air.
- pekk 14y ago
  'Looks like' does not mean 'has the same capability,' for example, in processing power
  - takluyver 14y ago
    Processing power is now largely irrelevant to most users. The experience is defined by the form factor - how big is the screen? Does it have a keyboard? Are the applications designed for touch use, or for a mouse? The Surface line, with keyboards as optional extras, are clearly intended to compete both as tablets and as laptops. So they're going to be compared with both categories.
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Its a mistake to compare the Surface pro with a MacBook Air. You can't use the air on your lap like a standard laptop (I've tried with the RT...ouch!). But really, I'm not sure what to compare this against, or how it fits in between my iPad and MacBook Air. Which one does it replace?
- igravious 14y ago
  Not to be glib. But it is _meant_ to replace both presumably. Now hear me out cuz I am no Microsoft fanboy, I haven't used Windows in years but I have to credit Microsoft for innovating. We always heap praise on Apple for the iPad, iPhone, and Macbook Air so I think we should praise Microsoft when they innovate too. Ok, fair enough, ne must innovate and hit the mark, have Microsoft hit the mark? Because it has touch and is the size of a tablet (like an iPad) and the power and form-factor of an ultra-book (like a Macbook Air) it seems obvious to me that it meant to replace both devices with one device. Why is this hard for folks to see? Now, is it a drop-in replacement? The battery (as Anand says) lets it down, so the answer is negative in this respect but you are saving on the cost of having to buy an iPad and a Macbook Air so the answer is positive in that respect. Comes with a pen for precision drawing input, positive. Runs Windows, negative (joke! ok, you can see the Linux guy coming out in me). Um, so on balance I'd have to say, intriguing device - has its plusses and minuses. If they up the battery life significantly with Surface Pro 2 and shrink it some more they are on to a definite winner and game changer. It'll _never_ be as portable as an iPad (because it has the guts of an ultrabook) so we need to get that out of our heads, all Microsoft needs to do is make it svelte _enough_. That's my take on the whole thing. Now back to me Gentoo server ...
- nchlswu 14y ago
  That one data point doesn't mean it's a mistake to compare it with the MBA. It's "complete" functionality and more importantly, price after keyboard means the MBA comparison should be made. Comparisons to tablets and other hybrids should also be made. What I find interesting is the confusion about the product's positioning in the market. I am also confused and don't think it bodes well for the customer. At the base, it's most commonly known as a tablet, but the keyboard begins to confuse things. The moment you get into the Pro territory, the price confuses things even more. Even outside of the "RT/Pro" discussion, I'm not sure if it's lack of clear (existing) product category is beneficial for MS
simonh 14y ago
If this thing isn't in the same class as the iPad, doesn't compete with it and can't be compared to it, what on earth does it exist for?
- GFischer 14y ago
  For another class of users (which may or may not exist in significant quantities), that need Windows application compatibility and on-the-go keyboard.
amartya916 14y ago
Someone actually mentioned this in the comments (the first one) and Anand said "The problem is our Windows 8 battery life suite only has one datapoint at this point: Acer's 13-inch S7 ultrabook, which I did include in a table below the graphs on the battery life page. I will try to run the 11-inch MBA this week/weekend in the new suite to get a good reference point though." So hopefully, the review will be updated.

bitsoda 14y ago

Who is this device for? It's a poor tablet due to its lackluster touch eco system, battery life, size, and weight. And it's a mediocre laptop that can't stay upright on an actual person's lap, and has a relatively small display for a computer that is meant to be placed on a flat surface. Furthermore, the pre-loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space, making the more expensive $999 option the only feasible choice. I don't get it. Why not spend that $999 buying a budget laptop that can outperform the Surface Pro, and an inexpensive tablet like a Nexus 7/10 or iPad mini? Design is about making compromises. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they chose the wrong ones.

purplelobster 14y ago
Because it's basically an ultrabook with a convenient tablet form factor. Honestly that's precisely what I need. I don't want one device for productivity and one for play, which is why I'd never buy an iPad. I'd prefer Linux, but I think Microsoft has done a good job with Win8, it's perfect for a device like this.
- daliusd 14y ago
  I think it is too small for productivity. Yes, it is possible to work with small screen. I have experience working with 11, 13, 15 and bigger screens (each at least a year) and have achieved quite good results with each but 11-inch and less is not big enough for productivity. I encountered two problems: 1) some programs wants to use more screen. That's especially relevant for various IDEs and image manipulation programs. If you can work with simple text editor and command line, you are happy then. 2) too small keyboard. The smaller screen the smaller keyboard. Difference is 5-10% in typing speed but it is difference. Maybe for small person it is perfect size. Meanwhile I'm very happy with 13 inch ultrabook. Overall it is geek's wet dream to have device that is perfect size and perfect configuration at any moment. "Ubuntu for Android" (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android) is the same dream in different form. Currently I am as far from this dream as possible: 3 computers, several tables and several smartphones.
  - 14y ago

RyanZAG 14y ago

I can understand this product from the point of view of someone who spends most of the day on the road, but still needs to use their windows business software (common windows only sales software, etc). This is the identical market to the ultrabook/netbook segment. The ultrabooks would generally have better text input, while this surface pro tablet would have slightly better battery life and be lighter and easier to carry around (but not by much, really). Not too bad a product at all for this, and should get a number of sales from business users within a few years when it has been tried and tested by daring others in the respective companies. However, from any other POV, this product seems to fall flat. Unless you have to, nobody is going to use a win32 app on a tablet if they can use a similar iPad app designed for touch. Nobody will give up the battery life of a real tablet for the difficult to use win32 stylus programs, and the win8 apps just aren't there yet. So this device will fail to compete in the tablet sector for the identical reasons the RT tablet did not compete. It's just not as good a tablet for tablet uses as an iPad. Obviously it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment, it's just not capable enough. I don't see this device being any kind of success in the short term, but with revisions and company deals it may be able to corner the mobile business market in future - a very large market - if it survives that long with the politics at Microsoft and is able to reduce the price to compete with current budget business laptops.

SirPulse 14y ago
What do you mean " it won't compete in the desktop/high end laptop segment, it's just not capable enough" ? What is it not capable of?
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  Gaming on it would certainly be sub-par with that hardware, and gaming accounts for a good chunk of the high-end PC market.
  - adamnemecek 14y ago
    Because it's obvious that gamers are Surface's prime target.

KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago

2x the price but 5x the performance of an ipad4 (half the battery life but w/e). Sold. Edit: Wait, AND a wacom? OMG.

riffraff 14y ago

in one page http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695 http://www.anandtech.com/print/6695

mariusmg 14y ago

This is the first machine ever build that works great as a tablet, ultrabook AND desktop replacement . One machine to rule them all.

fekberg 14y ago
I agree. Can't wait to get my hands on one and use it as a replacement in meetings/demos/presentations just to see if it's better suited for that than my "portable" EliteBook.

nextparadigms 14y ago

I think TheVerge's conclusion [1] says exactly what I thought about Windows 8 and Windows 8 hybrids from day one: "It tries to do everything, but misses doing anything really well" Something like the Surface Pro has a lot of compromises, starting from the schizophrenic UI, to high price, too small screen to be productive on it, low battery on it, heat, noise, fans, and so on. It's not the "best of both worlds". It's the worst of both worlds. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-surface-pro-review http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/5/3955130/microsoft-surface-p...

hayksaakian 14y ago

Why is this superior to having a windows ultrabook (buzzword, i know) + affordable tablet? Especially now with touch screen laptops, the only utility I see here is the lack of dedicated keyboard, but that's as big an advantage as disadvantage.

pekk 14y ago
I would love to have one of these to do graphics work on the go: runs all the industry stuff with some extra processing power, decent res, and Wacom input (compare to the cost of Cintiq). Hopefully they will be able to improve battery life in later models. But for programming, I can't really understand using a tablet at all, while a normal cheaper laptop will do just fine.
skc 14y ago
Because people may only want to carry a single device instead of two. Obviously with the poor battery life and weight the Pro doesn't quite get there, but it's clear this is the evolutionary path Microsoft is headed for. Things should get really interesting with each iteration of the device. For now, the device will be considered a flop though.

NZ_Matt 14y ago

This is a tempting device, but I'll probably wait for version 2. I feel like this is a step into the future where everyone carries one cloud connected device that can then be docked when you want to get serious work done. Is there an official dock that makes it simple to connect it to an extra monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc ?

rogerbinns 14y ago
Other manufacturers are also making similar devices. For example checkout the Lenovo Helix http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-helix/ http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/thinkpad-h... and here is CES quick look showing the different modes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yk3KyW_6Ug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yk3KyW_6Ug The keyboard base has USB 3 and displayport (separate from those on the "tablet" bit). They also have a USB 3 dock that then has video, audio, more USB etc ports.
- Blara 14y ago
  I don't like the way that lenovo puts their "Fn" key where the (left) "Ctrl" key should be, other than that it looks nice
  - gregstoll 14y ago
    On my Lenovo laptop, there's a BIOS setting to swap them, which I was very happy to find!
    - Blara 14y ago
      I'll see if I can find that setting on my laptop as well :) thanks
      - rogerbinns 14y ago
        Lenovo introduced the BIOS setting in late 2009. If you have an older system there may be an updated BIOS. Here is a video showing how to do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR955qVc068 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR955qVc068

dizzystar 14y ago

I think the surface is probably a great for what it is, but I think I'll dive for a Lenovo Yoga. I tried a Yoga at the store last week and I was totally smitten by it.

tluyben2 14y ago
Yes, I like that one too, but it suffers from the same big problem; battery life. I would buy the Yoga today if it had double the battery life.
- dizzystar 14y ago
  Quick search shows about 5 1/2 hours with video + wifi running. It's not too shabby but I haven't really ran into a use case where this is a major issue for me yet. I generally use my tablet to read books or watch videos and I don't work in a situation where I'd get pulverized for not having a longer battery life where I wouldn't have access to a charger.
  - tluyben2 14y ago
    Me neither; I just find it annoying :) And like I said; when I buy a laptop which starts out with X hours battery life, it'll take less than a year to get to half of that. Only exception has been Fujitsu Lifebook laptops which, even after years (I still have a p1510 with the extended battery) it still has the same battery life and works like a charm.
dustincoates 14y ago
I have a Yoga and I love it. I find myself using it in tablet mode quite a bit (though never on the train like I might a Nexus 7) for things like reading, watching video, or keeping up recipes while I cook. For all of the criticism on notebook touchscreens--namely, that people don't want to touch an upright screen--I find that I am using the touchscreen when in "notebook mode." It's never tiring and it usually just makes sense. For example, I use it when I'm plugged into an external monitor a lot and I don't want to move my mouse all the way over to what's on the screen of the Yoga. My only complaint is that I find myself going to touch other screens and get disappointed that I can't.

tluyben2 14y ago

The price, flaky keyboard (everyone keeps writing about missing keystrokes; isn't that incredibly annoying?) and battery life put me off. Battery life puts me off most laptops; it's time for 10 hour laptops, not more ~5 ones (which, after a few months, will drop under 3). And as a tablet that's not really an option. Version 2 or 3 might be something I would buy, however the competition has now been kicked into this new reality (full power in a tablet). Exciting. So now up to Apple, Samsung, Asus, MS etc to make something with 10+ hours battery life, 2560x1600 resolution, tablet and laptop in one, with the performance of an i5/i7 :) Transformer Infinity is almost there besides the performance of course. For me that's almost never an issue as I value battery life much more, but in an ideal world I can take my entire environment with me even when there is no internet available (I compile in the cloud now). Edit: Wacom + pen would be a huge plus for my ideal machine. I wouldn't really care about the price for such a thing. Edit: maybe someone knows; is there some kind of solar panel tech in existence which can be put 'on' the entire laptop/tablet surface without you seeing it or being bothered by it? When I go for long walks I take my solar panel on my back which keeps my Android tablet loaded for hours more than it would normally do. It seems like a good idea to just put that in if it's possible?

mixmax 14y ago

Judging by the screenshots Microsoft still doesn't get design and why it's important. It's not just about polish, it's about a user experience where the overall design decisions saturate the whole device. Similar design elements must have the same look and feel, and behave in similar ways. The screenshot of the task manager looks like something from windows NT, the display appearance screenshot looks like win7, and the whole thing is glossed over by a new fancy design that seemingly is only a thin slice of beauty that reveals the ugly interior as soon as you start delving into the system. From a UI standpoint it looks like a complete mess, where the ugly head of legacy rears its head at every corner. This is the major differentiator between Apple and Microsoft, and is a large factor in the continued success of Apple. Microsoft doesn't seem to understand this at all.

pavlov 14y ago
Judging by the screenshots ... Why bother judging by the screenshots? There are plenty of actual Windows 8 devices out there. It's fairly pointless to post guesswork about the UI.
- bandushrew 14y ago
  how do screen shots represent 'guesswork'?
  - halviti 14y ago
    User Interface is about user experience. You can't experience using a product with some photographs. Similarly, you can't pretend to be a judge of good design based on a couple of photographs. This guy was clearly just spouting an opinion based on nothing, and we shouldn't respond to such comments as if they deserve merit.
  - pavlov 14y ago
    Take a person who has never used iOS. Show her screenshots of the home screen and a few random Apple apps -- say, Find My Friends and Podcasts. Would you expect her to draw a reasonable conclusion of what it's like to use an iPhone and how the design works in practice? More likely, looking at screenshots would divert her attention to secondary things like the textures and illustrations used in the apps rather than the actual UI design.

pavlov 14y ago

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2. It's a Windows 8 Pro tablet with the Intel "Clover Trail" platform (dualcore 1.8 GHz Atom SOC). For me, it hits the perfect sweet spot. It's iPad-sized; there are no fans or vents; and I quite like the "Metro" touch apps because I'm already used to Windows Phone. At the same time the Clover Trail platform is fast enough to run Win32 desktop apps and the tablet comes with a pressure-sensitive Wacom pen, so it's a pretty great little machine for sketching and painting. I rather like the refreshed Office 2013 apps too, they're fine for mixed touch and pen input. The Thinkpad Tablet 2 is also much less expensive than the Surface Pro, so I'm very happy with this choice... On the other hand I realize that my needs are those of a minority. The market for 10-inch Wacom tablets is presumably not that great. But if there is demand for "pro" tablets where precision input and access to the existing Windows x86 ecosystem are requirements, then Clover Trail + Windows 8 could have some legs.

nextparadigms 14y ago
Atom is still way, way too slow for legacy programs, and that's supposed to be one of the "strengths" of x86 tablets. They may support them, but if they work slow on it, then it's all for nothing.
- pavlov 14y ago
  The tablet feels about as powerful as a good x86 laptop from six years ago. Clover Trail is faster than previous Atoms, and it's certainly helped by having a Flash disk instead of a slow tiny hard drive. I haven't noticed a problem with Win32 desktop apps. It would certainly be too slow for something heavy-duty like the latest Visual Studio... But my use is more oriented towards Office, browsing and art software which it handles fine.
tluyben2 14y ago
That looks good actually. Does it make the promised 10 hour battery life from the reviews? Ah but the resolution is 1366x768, that's a fairly big turn off.
- 14y ago

itsbits 14y ago

People here forgetting the fact that Surface is hafling..half tablet, half PC..so the design and UX you see has to meet both both requirements..That way i think Microsoft has done gr8 job..but problem is who needs halflings?

manojlds 14y ago
Not has to. It is more like will meet both requirements. It is the first step towards the future.
- itsbits 14y ago
  do u really think there is a use of PC for a normal user in future?? The way i understand the common requirements for a user is watching videos; reading news, books, listening audio; playing games which all can be done by current touch devices..PCs may exist for developers etc..but tablets just take away the basic use of PC...

cubicle67 14y ago

Arstechnica review http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-with-windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-wit...

ishansharma 14y ago

I believe that Microsoft has too much legacy code in Windows to change it. At best, Metro is a slapped on interface on Windows. I have not used Surface but have a laptop with Windows 8. Hardware wise, Surface is quite good but Windows has two basic problems: 1. Legacy Code: No matter what, there will be some part of Windows that will behave oddly and not upto current standards. I use multiple Wi-Fi networks and my iPhone, iPad and my friend's Windows Phone automatically use proxy settings for that network. Windows 8 needs a manual change. 2. Slapped On Metro: Metro feels very unpolished. There are settings and other apps in Metro but real power still lies with classic Windows UI. Microsoft is presenting it as a "no compromises" approach but it feels like an all compromises approach.

rassene 14y ago

I think surface pro should be compared to the Acer W700 tablet which come with a i5-3317U processor and 4Gb of RAM. Somehow acer W700 manages to get 9 hours battery life. The w700 is also cheaper and comes with a dock, Bluetooth keybord, leather case, and HDMI to VGA adapter. http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-Tablet/dp/B009H1BI0O http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W700-6691-11-6-Inch-Tablet...

mads 14y ago

I love the new Metro interface, when I am in my hot tub with my Lenovo Yoga, but I hate it, when I am using the Yoga as a laptop. Recently switched from Linux to Windows on my main laptop (driver proplems with Linux) and still using Linux on my development laptop, but I think Microsoft is on to something. Still needs improvement, no question... I had an iPad and it was kind of "too simple"... Dont know how to describe it.. With my current laptop (the Yoga, which has touch and doubles as tablet and laptop), I kind of have everything in one device... I can do tablet in the tub on in the bed and do development at my desk with one device.

b1daly 14y ago

Speaking personally only, I've had a change in perspective about the desirability of an all in one device. For along time I thought it would be cool if you could have a phone as your cpu, and dock it up to the form factor that appropriate for your context: tablet, notebook, desktop. As a pie in the sky vision. The surface pro, an actually here device seemed promising to me as a concept. In particular, the ability to do some work in a different physical position, (on the can, at the coffee shop, etc). The surface pro seems enticing at first glance as I could run my main working software (pro tools). It's dawning on me now lately though that I need a very optimized, particular environment to work with any semblance of efficiency. Powerful desktop, big monitor, custom set of input and pointing tools, the particular set of utilities installed and running, plus speakers, comfortable chair. And I need every thing in just the right spot. I need my desktop setup just so, I rely on Mac os x spaces. I have custom keyboard macros. When all this is just so, I can rock it, my efficiency goes way up. It's just not worth it try to do actual work at the coffee shop, because even if I can the experience is so sub optimal,I'd rather just skim the internet on my nexus 7, and wait till I'm at my studio to work. Buying a device that compromises both experiences, the long battery life, light to hold tablet, and the serious workstation is not an improvement. A nexus 7 is so cheap and light. I have a hand me down Mac book that does laptop stuff just fine if I really need to work portably. And my work station stays put, ready for heavy lifting. What is the advantage of a hybrid device if any of the use cases are worse than the stand-alones, if those use cases matter to you. The surface is a worse experience compared to the dedicated devices in all three form factors it's trying to compete in: desktop replacement, notebook, tablet. How is this a benefit? Most people who buy the surface pro are going to be serious users of computers. It's worth it to pay for good tools. It's not that hard to carry a 7inch tablet and a notebook. I could see for a student, who is very budget comscious maybe this be useful.

regalasiono 14y ago

This device is terrible. Get an iPad instead.

RexRollman 14y ago

I don't think I will buy this but I do like the idea of a tablet that can run Foobar2000.

jonheller 14y ago

Microsoft seems to be repeating many of the mistakes here of the pre iPad tablets, when there was a crazy in the mid 2000's or so of everyone trying to succeed with one. It's a machine that tries to be both and excels and neither.

cooldeal 14y ago

Sad to see this submission getting flagged just like it happens with any article that is not extremely negative on Microsoft. So even reviews of a Microsoft product are not welcome on HN. Many years ago, I read a comment on Reddit calling HN a bunch of Apple fanboys. After these years I have realized it mostly consists of Google and Apple fanboys and irrational. Why else would someone with good karma go out of their way to flag this _review_ from Anandtech of all people? I am sure people are waiting for the inevitable deprecating takes of Gruber, Marco, Siegler etc. on the Surface. Those will shoot straight up the front page.

marknutter 14y ago
How do you know if people are flagging the article?
- tluyben2 14y ago
  I would like to know as well; this article ranked front page and #1 for quite a long time?
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    See my other comment here. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177366 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5177366 Funnily, THAT story got flagged as well and is sitting on third page now.
nivla 14y ago
Its really interesting to see people who believe themselves as intellectually superior acting like 5 year olds when it comes to opinions that doesn't fit their stack. I started avoiding Reddit but I am increasingly going back to find news and discussions that gets flagged off from here. I hope there exists a place on the web, where news is served/discussed as facts minus all the fanboyisms. If not, I should make one for a better future.

chemmail 14y ago

Got a chance to try out the pro. Was really excited since I've litterly been waiting for something like this for 10 years starting with a tc1000 and 3 more tablets since then. I have many iPads but they are really just toys. unfortunately the pro needs just a bit more to get to the dream ms had since their first tablets. It needs more buttons, a back button and a page up/down scroll buttons on the side like a lot of tablets have. what's with the single front button? This isn't an iPad,even android has 4. The stand needs maybe 3 levels of adjustment. Size and weight of the rt are almost perfect maybe haswell can get us there. And one more thing, enough with this 16:9 aspect ratio, we aren't going to be watching tv shows on this thing (not that much anyways) give us 4:3 or 5:4 back so we can get some work done.