5 ms·

US waitress was fired for posting a picture of a tip receipt on Reddit

82 points by blearyeyed 14y ago

doctorpangloss 14y ago
I think it became a problem because only Mormons paid tithe, and it became a charged comment.
- mct 14y ago
  The term is a generic one, not specific to Mormonism. According to the Wikipedia article[1] (albeit from an uncited source), there are references to it from the year 567. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe
- btilly 14y ago
  Mormons are the best known example of it, but many Baptist, Pentecostal and Brethren churches do the same thing. In all of those cases, where it happens, I believe that 10% is the standard figure.
  - crymer11 14y ago
    Most Protestant denominations I'm familiar with encourage tithing, all at 10%.
  - lancefisher 14y ago
    The word tithe means tenth, and it is the biblical standard of giving - a tenth of your income. However, it's not related at all to tipping a waitress a portion of your dinner bill.
    - krichman 14y ago
      Religious people that write things like that prefer rhetoric to reason. It's in the same class of statements as "no monkey in my family tree." Sounds like you've made a point but you have only made a sentence.
- SeanLuke 14y ago
  How did Mormons come into this discussion? To tithe means to pay one tenth and always has. A "tithe" comes from the saxon "teoþa" which means "tenth". Plenty of sects tithe.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Mormons are only unique in this respect in just how seriously they take tithing and the lengths that they go to in order to ensure that it is being done properly. In most other Christian-based religions tithing is a more personal matter.
bobdylan1 14y ago
I wonder if that sweet sweet karma was worth it.
daniel-cussen 14y ago
The person who wrote the note came across an article about it, called the Applebee’s location, and demanded everyone be fired — me, the server who allowed me to take the picture, the manager on duty at the time, the manager not on duty at the time, everyone. It seems I was fired not because Applebee’s was represented poorly, not because I did anything illegal or against company policy, but because I embarrassed this person. Incredible. How much money does this customer want to stiff this waitress out of? Isn't paying nothing on a mandatory tip bad enough?
- crymer11 14y ago
  While I wholeheartedly agree that the actions of the customer are absurd, I would like to point out that in the US, courts have held that a tip is not "mandatory."
  - artursapek 14y ago
    Nobody's arguing this on legal grounds. Even if it's technically okay to leave without tipping, it's a shitty thing to do.
    - ghshephard 14y ago
      Except, in this case, the person actually paid the 18% tip directly to the serving person, and didn't want the restaurant taking an additional "service fee".
      - daniel-cussen 14y ago
        Apparently not, he didn't tip anything to anybody.
        ghshephard 14y ago
        From the comments: "Another detail she got wrong was claiming the customer left no tip. The customer left the tip as cash on the table, as most people in the US do, and something that most servers prefer, rather than pay it as part of the bill. "
saraid216 14y ago
Apparently it turned into a social media fracas: http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnight-social-media-meltdown-a-photo-essay/ http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnigh...
- rdtsc 14y ago
  Wow. A PC train wreck indeed. It doesn't even matter what the original thing was about, this will be entered into the text books as a classic 'social media: what not to do' lesson. If anyone should be fired it is the persons making the decisions and handling this response. You can see them digging their own grave deeper deeper with every new statement.
- berlinbrown 14y ago
  This is exactly why Applebee's fired the waitress. She wasn't fired because the customer called the store. She was fired because she was the catalyst for all of this bad publicity.
  - JDShu 14y ago
    What? I thought the bad publicity was caused by Applebee's firing her, not the other way round.
    - berlinbrown 14y ago
      As a general rule, restaurant managers at these chain stores have to respect the brand. According to Applebee's: "Employees must honor the privacy rights of APPLEBEE’s and its employees by seeking permission before writing about or displaying internal APPLEBEE'S happenings that might be " considered to be a breach of privacy and confidentiality..." She was fired for breaching the the customer's privacy. And you don't normally do that (putting information online) because this kind of shitstorm can happen. They are probably sending a message to other employees, don't pull this kind of stuff or you lose your job. Now look at the shitstorm we have to deal with.
jd007 14y ago
Maybe people should be more careful about what to post online, especially things that could reveal personal identities without the person's permission. In this case the customer's signature is partially visible, which is not only considered personal but can potentially also be forged to sign for credit card receipts and legal documents. Sure the life of a waitress is not easy but from the perspective of the restaurant owner, I think the firing was justified. If she disagrees, she can always sue for wrongful termination and let the court decide (which will cost her money that potentially cannot be recovered should she lose).
- pdonis 14y ago
  the customer's signature is partially visible You're kidding, right? How could anyone possibly get any identifying information from a few squiggles at the edge of a photo--much less enough to perpetrate identity theft?
  - droithomme 14y ago
    She originally posted the full image of the receipt and the signature was completely visible.
  - jd007 14y ago
    The point is not whether enough identifying information could be obtained this time, but rather the fact that she (arguably) did not really consider that when posting the image, and that she could do it again (and this time reveal enough identifying information). Had she tilted the camera a bit further down the whole signature would've been visible. Imagine an employee in a company accidentally leaks some user data, which does not really contain personally identifying information. I don't think it's completely unjustifiable to fire this person even though no damage was done. Of course the owners of the restaurant could've dealt with the situation a lot nicer (warning her about the potential danger instead of firing her). But I don't blame them for taking the more drastic measure that they did (not saying that I would've done the same).
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- Osiris 14y ago
  I've always thought that the idea of a gratuity as a requirement is just a scapegoat for employers not wanting to pay their employees for the effort they put in. I've never understood why I have to tip a waiter, a pizza delivery guy, or a grocery bagger, but not the guy that changes my oil. When I lived in Mexico, grocery stores had bag boys and they were all under 12 years old. Those kids weren't employed by the store, they were allowed to work there for tips only. That's the only pay they received. I always tipped those boys well, but it shows how the gratuity can be abused.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    That may be the case, but refusing to tip is only going to hurt the people who are not making that call. Not the employer, but the underpaid employees. When you fail to tip a waitress, you are not making a social statement that is heard by anybody.
    - Osiris 14y ago
      I don't think anyone's claiming the opposite. I have a sister-in-law that was a waitress for many years, so I've heard lots of stories. It's a crock for them because they RELY on the tips as their wage. Since it's really their wage, why not just pay them the wage in the first place? Alas, I don't think it will change unless it's legislated.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    Wages for a lot of the positions you described are adjusted to take into account the fact they receive tips (in the case of serving people, 18%).
  - berlinbrown 14y ago
    It is a perfectly fine system but apparently in America, you have to leave a 20% tip under all circumstances. If the service is bad, who cares, leave the 20% or you are an asshole and we will post your information online. God help you if you are caught not leaving a tip.
droithomme 14y ago
The waitress's own accounting of the incident is exceptionally self serving and false. The signature as originally posted was quite legible. Her original accounting of the incident was completely fabricated because she didn't actually serve the table, though she represented herself as if she did. For example, the customer's name, Alois, is a man's name, but the customer was actually a female with a male's first name. The waitress asserted that the customer was a man. When she later found out she was wrong she backpeddled and claimed she knew that but that she was protecting the customer's identity. However she publicly posted the customer's name and location, enabling people to track down the customer and begin threatening her. Another detail she got wrong was claiming the customer left no tip. The customer left the tip as cash on the table, as most people in the US do, and something that most servers prefer, rather than pay it as part of the bill. The restaurant also though double charged the customer for the tip, meaning the customer ended up paying 36% rather than 18% on the bill as tip. Because the waitress had not served the table she assumed that the strike out of the tip line meant the customer left no tip at all. In short, the waitress violated a customer's privacy, lied about the customer publicly defaming her, publicly ridiculed her religious beliefs, and instigated an internet mob riot against the customer which continues to this day in the form of threats and harassment and has caused the customer severe mental anguish. If I was an attorney in the area I would be preparing a large lawsuit against the restaurant at this time, and I would certainly prevail in court. Her firing was completely justified and her complaining about being fired in the media and claiming herself as victim when she was the bully is absolutely outrageous.
- berlinbrown 14y ago
  Exactly. Look at it from the other side, Applebee's has to protect their brand. They can't have waitresses posting information about customers online. That is why she was fired. I was immediately shocked by the waitresses' behavior. That one comment set you off that you had to violate your customer's privacy? Also, I wonder if some media outlets are rightly masking the customer's personal information but I saw some posts with the fullname in the image.
  - tlrobinson 14y ago
berlinbrown 14y ago
I am surprised that everyone saw this from one side. I was making an argument that the "pastor" has received a lot of undue criticism all because she made ONE comment on a receipt after ONE meal. Now, her small 15 person church is receiving a bunch of scrutiny and being mocked...from papers across the globe. If the "waitress" did not POST the picture on the Internet then the pastor would have been left alone. Is it possible the waitress overreacted to the customer's one comment on tips? It has been a while since I waited tables but we were always happy and respectable to all guests, we didn't worry about a person NOT giving tips. We were just glad for the visit. Did it ever matter? It is all about the averages, you may get a good tip at one table and a bad tip at another. You never disrespect the customer by trying to insult them online. On religion and her being a pastor (of a 15 member church). Why should we expect rational, conscientious behavior from some random pastor? The world is shocked that she didn't want to give a tip and then made a reference a God while doing so. It is religion, I don't expect thought-out, kind behavior from religious people. Why should we? They are just people and are going to make these kind of snide comments just like anyone else. "In light of the situation, I would like to make a statement on behalf of wait staff everywhere: We make $3.50 an hour. Most of my paychecks are less than pocket change because I have to pay taxes on the tips I make." She knows that if you make less than the non-server minimum wage then the company is supposed to pay you the rest of the wages to meet the minimum wage rate. So, they don't entirely make less than the federal minimum wage rate. And I was a waiter, a lot of people didn't report ALL the tips that they earned to avoid the taxes. Should we make sure she is being accurate in her tax reporting?
- saraid216 14y ago
  > On religion and her being a pastor (of a 15 member church). Why should we expect rational, conscientious behavior from some random pastor? The world is shocked that she didn't want to give a tip and then made a reference a God while doing so. It is religion, I don't expect thought-out, kind behavior from religious people. Why should we? They are just people and are going to make these kind of snide comments just like anyone else. Er. Historically, clergy are expected to be the voices of reason, neutral third parties for arbitration and trust purposes, and also minor authorities at minimum. It's a stereotype. That doesn't mean it disappeared because you aren't religious.
jeffdavis 14y ago
"It seems I was fired not because Applebee’s was represented poorly..." Actually, that is probably why she was fired. Saying something publicly about a customer, especially in a way that could look bad for the customer, does not reflect well on the restaurant. If you interact with customers, it's your job at risk. The customer is sometimes, but often not, risking much by being rude in one way or another. Is it fair? Maybe not. But that's unlikely to be a productive discussion.
kristianp 14y ago
Why is this on Hacker News? I can't think of any relevance it has to software or entrepreneurship. This kind of thing should stay on Reddit, methinks. I'm not going to flag it though, as it isn't spam.
callmeed 14y ago
Our pastor showed this picture in church this morning. Didn't really get the back story and some things still don't add up: The picture on Reddit (linked to from this link) is cropped. I seem to remember seeing the entire receipt. Usually tips are only added automatically for large parties (>= 8) but this bill was only $34. Makes no sense. Was this just 8 people getting iced teas?
RenierZA 14y ago
Pastor's apology: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/tipping-pastor-apologizes-687234 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/tipping-pastor-apolog... In a TSG interview, Alois Bell said that the online firestorm created by the receipt has left her stunned. “My heart is really broken,” said the 37-year-old Bell. “I’ve brought embarrassment to my church and ministry.”
- berlinbrown 14y ago
  It sucks she backed down so easily. She should have lawyered up.
fleitz 14y ago
Applebees PR dept should watch reservoir dogs, the problem is that no matter how right you are, you look like an asshole. Was it inexecusable? Certainly. Does she make $3.50 an hour? Yes. Does anyone find that an acceptable amount to be paid in the richest nation on earth? No. Do most people regard those that don't tip as assholes? Yes.
superk 14y ago
Getting fired from Applebees is the best thing that could've happened to her. That's divine intervention if I've ever seen it...
bulletmagnet 14y ago
Well, on the bright side, she now has all the time in the world to spend on Reddit.

82 points by blearyeyed 14y ago

doctorpangloss 14y ago

I think it became a problem because only Mormons paid tithe, and it became a charged comment.

mct 14y ago
The term is a generic one, not specific to Mormonism. According to the Wikipedia article[1] (albeit from an uncited source), there are references to it from the year 567. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe
btilly 14y ago
Mormons are the best known example of it, but many Baptist, Pentecostal and Brethren churches do the same thing. In all of those cases, where it happens, I believe that 10% is the standard figure.
- crymer11 14y ago
  Most Protestant denominations I'm familiar with encourage tithing, all at 10%.
- lancefisher 14y ago
  The word tithe means tenth, and it is the biblical standard of giving - a tenth of your income. However, it's not related at all to tipping a waitress a portion of your dinner bill.
  - krichman 14y ago
    Religious people that write things like that prefer rhetoric to reason. It's in the same class of statements as "no monkey in my family tree." Sounds like you've made a point but you have only made a sentence.
SeanLuke 14y ago
How did Mormons come into this discussion? To tithe means to pay one tenth and always has. A "tithe" comes from the saxon "teoþa" which means "tenth". Plenty of sects tithe.
jlgreco 14y ago
Mormons are only unique in this respect in just how seriously they take tithing and the lengths that they go to in order to ensure that it is being done properly. In most other Christian-based religions tithing is a more personal matter.

bobdylan1 14y ago

I wonder if that sweet sweet karma was worth it.

daniel-cussen 14y ago

The person who wrote the note came across an article about it, called the Applebee’s location, and demanded everyone be fired — me, the server who allowed me to take the picture, the manager on duty at the time, the manager not on duty at the time, everyone. It seems I was fired not because Applebee’s was represented poorly, not because I did anything illegal or against company policy, but because I embarrassed this person. Incredible. How much money does this customer want to stiff this waitress out of? Isn't paying nothing on a mandatory tip bad enough?

crymer11 14y ago
While I wholeheartedly agree that the actions of the customer are absurd, I would like to point out that in the US, courts have held that a tip is not "mandatory."
- artursapek 14y ago
  Nobody's arguing this on legal grounds. Even if it's technically okay to leave without tipping, it's a shitty thing to do.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    Except, in this case, the person actually paid the 18% tip directly to the serving person, and didn't want the restaurant taking an additional "service fee".
    - daniel-cussen 14y ago
      Apparently not, he didn't tip anything to anybody.
      - ghshephard 14y ago
        From the comments: "Another detail she got wrong was claiming the customer left no tip. The customer left the tip as cash on the table, as most people in the US do, and something that most servers prefer, rather than pay it as part of the bill. "

saraid216 14y ago

Apparently it turned into a social media fracas: http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnight-social-media-meltdown-a-photo-essay/ http://rlstollar.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/applebees-overnigh...

rdtsc 14y ago
Wow. A PC train wreck indeed. It doesn't even matter what the original thing was about, this will be entered into the text books as a classic 'social media: what not to do' lesson. If anyone should be fired it is the persons making the decisions and handling this response. You can see them digging their own grave deeper deeper with every new statement.
berlinbrown 14y ago
This is exactly why Applebee's fired the waitress. She wasn't fired because the customer called the store. She was fired because she was the catalyst for all of this bad publicity.
- JDShu 14y ago
  What? I thought the bad publicity was caused by Applebee's firing her, not the other way round.
  - berlinbrown 14y ago
    As a general rule, restaurant managers at these chain stores have to respect the brand. According to Applebee's: "Employees must honor the privacy rights of APPLEBEE’s and its employees by seeking permission before writing about or displaying internal APPLEBEE'S happenings that might be " considered to be a breach of privacy and confidentiality..." She was fired for breaching the the customer's privacy. And you don't normally do that (putting information online) because this kind of shitstorm can happen. They are probably sending a message to other employees, don't pull this kind of stuff or you lose your job. Now look at the shitstorm we have to deal with.

jd007 14y ago

Maybe people should be more careful about what to post online, especially things that could reveal personal identities without the person's permission. In this case the customer's signature is partially visible, which is not only considered personal but can potentially also be forged to sign for credit card receipts and legal documents. Sure the life of a waitress is not easy but from the perspective of the restaurant owner, I think the firing was justified. If she disagrees, she can always sue for wrongful termination and let the court decide (which will cost her money that potentially cannot be recovered should she lose).

pdonis 14y ago
the customer's signature is partially visible You're kidding, right? How could anyone possibly get any identifying information from a few squiggles at the edge of a photo--much less enough to perpetrate identity theft?
- droithomme 14y ago
  She originally posted the full image of the receipt and the signature was completely visible.
- jd007 14y ago
  The point is not whether enough identifying information could be obtained this time, but rather the fact that she (arguably) did not really consider that when posting the image, and that she could do it again (and this time reveal enough identifying information). Had she tilted the camera a bit further down the whole signature would've been visible. Imagine an employee in a company accidentally leaks some user data, which does not really contain personally identifying information. I don't think it's completely unjustifiable to fire this person even though no damage was done. Of course the owners of the restaurant could've dealt with the situation a lot nicer (warning her about the potential danger instead of firing her). But I don't blame them for taking the more drastic measure that they did (not saying that I would've done the same).

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Osiris 14y ago
I've always thought that the idea of a gratuity as a requirement is just a scapegoat for employers not wanting to pay their employees for the effort they put in. I've never understood why I have to tip a waiter, a pizza delivery guy, or a grocery bagger, but not the guy that changes my oil. When I lived in Mexico, grocery stores had bag boys and they were all under 12 years old. Those kids weren't employed by the store, they were allowed to work there for tips only. That's the only pay they received. I always tipped those boys well, but it shows how the gratuity can be abused.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  That may be the case, but refusing to tip is only going to hurt the people who are not making that call. Not the employer, but the underpaid employees. When you fail to tip a waitress, you are not making a social statement that is heard by anybody.
  - Osiris 14y ago
    I don't think anyone's claiming the opposite. I have a sister-in-law that was a waitress for many years, so I've heard lots of stories. It's a crock for them because they RELY on the tips as their wage. Since it's really their wage, why not just pay them the wage in the first place? Alas, I don't think it will change unless it's legislated.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Wages for a lot of the positions you described are adjusted to take into account the fact they receive tips (in the case of serving people, 18%).
- berlinbrown 14y ago
  It is a perfectly fine system but apparently in America, you have to leave a 20% tip under all circumstances. If the service is bad, who cares, leave the 20% or you are an asshole and we will post your information online. God help you if you are caught not leaving a tip.

droithomme 14y ago

The waitress's own accounting of the incident is exceptionally self serving and false. The signature as originally posted was quite legible. Her original accounting of the incident was completely fabricated because she didn't actually serve the table, though she represented herself as if she did. For example, the customer's name, Alois, is a man's name, but the customer was actually a female with a male's first name. The waitress asserted that the customer was a man. When she later found out she was wrong she backpeddled and claimed she knew that but that she was protecting the customer's identity. However she publicly posted the customer's name and location, enabling people to track down the customer and begin threatening her. Another detail she got wrong was claiming the customer left no tip. The customer left the tip as cash on the table, as most people in the US do, and something that most servers prefer, rather than pay it as part of the bill. The restaurant also though double charged the customer for the tip, meaning the customer ended up paying 36% rather than 18% on the bill as tip. Because the waitress had not served the table she assumed that the strike out of the tip line meant the customer left no tip at all. In short, the waitress violated a customer's privacy, lied about the customer publicly defaming her, publicly ridiculed her religious beliefs, and instigated an internet mob riot against the customer which continues to this day in the form of threats and harassment and has caused the customer severe mental anguish. If I was an attorney in the area I would be preparing a large lawsuit against the restaurant at this time, and I would certainly prevail in court. Her firing was completely justified and her complaining about being fired in the media and claiming herself as victim when she was the bully is absolutely outrageous.

berlinbrown 14y ago
Exactly. Look at it from the other side, Applebee's has to protect their brand. They can't have waitresses posting information about customers online. That is why she was fired. I was immediately shocked by the waitresses' behavior. That one comment set you off that you had to violate your customer's privacy? Also, I wonder if some media outlets are rightly masking the customer's personal information but I saw some posts with the fullname in the image.
- tlrobinson 14y ago

berlinbrown 14y ago

I am surprised that everyone saw this from one side. I was making an argument that the "pastor" has received a lot of undue criticism all because she made ONE comment on a receipt after ONE meal. Now, her small 15 person church is receiving a bunch of scrutiny and being mocked...from papers across the globe. If the "waitress" did not POST the picture on the Internet then the pastor would have been left alone. Is it possible the waitress overreacted to the customer's one comment on tips? It has been a while since I waited tables but we were always happy and respectable to all guests, we didn't worry about a person NOT giving tips. We were just glad for the visit. Did it ever matter? It is all about the averages, you may get a good tip at one table and a bad tip at another. You never disrespect the customer by trying to insult them online. On religion and her being a pastor (of a 15 member church). Why should we expect rational, conscientious behavior from some random pastor? The world is shocked that she didn't want to give a tip and then made a reference a God while doing so. It is religion, I don't expect thought-out, kind behavior from religious people. Why should we? They are just people and are going to make these kind of snide comments just like anyone else. "In light of the situation, I would like to make a statement on behalf of wait staff everywhere: We make $3.50 an hour. Most of my paychecks are less than pocket change because I have to pay taxes on the tips I make." She knows that if you make less than the non-server minimum wage then the company is supposed to pay you the rest of the wages to meet the minimum wage rate. So, they don't entirely make less than the federal minimum wage rate. And I was a waiter, a lot of people didn't report ALL the tips that they earned to avoid the taxes. Should we make sure she is being accurate in her tax reporting?

saraid216 14y ago
> On religion and her being a pastor (of a 15 member church). Why should we expect rational, conscientious behavior from some random pastor? The world is shocked that she didn't want to give a tip and then made a reference a God while doing so. It is religion, I don't expect thought-out, kind behavior from religious people. Why should we? They are just people and are going to make these kind of snide comments just like anyone else. Er. Historically, clergy are expected to be the voices of reason, neutral third parties for arbitration and trust purposes, and also minor authorities at minimum. It's a stereotype. That doesn't mean it disappeared because you aren't religious.

jeffdavis 14y ago

"It seems I was fired not because Applebee’s was represented poorly..." Actually, that is probably why she was fired. Saying something publicly about a customer, especially in a way that could look bad for the customer, does not reflect well on the restaurant. If you interact with customers, it's your job at risk. The customer is sometimes, but often not, risking much by being rude in one way or another. Is it fair? Maybe not. But that's unlikely to be a productive discussion.

kristianp 14y ago

Why is this on Hacker News? I can't think of any relevance it has to software or entrepreneurship. This kind of thing should stay on Reddit, methinks. I'm not going to flag it though, as it isn't spam.

callmeed 14y ago

Our pastor showed this picture in church this morning. Didn't really get the back story and some things still don't add up: The picture on Reddit (linked to from this link) is cropped. I seem to remember seeing the entire receipt. Usually tips are only added automatically for large parties (>= 8) but this bill was only $34. Makes no sense. Was this just 8 people getting iced teas?

RenierZA 14y ago

Pastor's apology: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/tipping-pastor-apologizes-687234 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/tipping-pastor-apolog... In a TSG interview, Alois Bell said that the online firestorm created by the receipt has left her stunned. “My heart is really broken,” said the 37-year-old Bell. “I’ve brought embarrassment to my church and ministry.”

berlinbrown 14y ago
It sucks she backed down so easily. She should have lawyered up.

fleitz 14y ago

Applebees PR dept should watch reservoir dogs, the problem is that no matter how right you are, you look like an asshole. Was it inexecusable? Certainly. Does she make $3.50 an hour? Yes. Does anyone find that an acceptable amount to be paid in the richest nation on earth? No. Do most people regard those that don't tip as assholes? Yes.

superk 14y ago

Getting fired from Applebees is the best thing that could've happened to her. That's divine intervention if I've ever seen it...

bulletmagnet 14y ago

Well, on the bright side, she now has all the time in the world to spend on Reddit.