4 ms·

AT&T is a company providing a service for a price. They are not scum. I've used AT&T for many years. I'm not always delighted with every policy - the now chang

by aneth4 14y ago

AT&T is a company providing a service for a price. They are not scum. I've used AT&T for many years. I'm not always delighted with every policy - the now changed policy of refusing to unlock out of contract iPhones was a particular bone. However I have almost always been satisfied with the service and have had no problem contacting them to correct billing issues. Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me. Telecom is a competitive market. Just because someone somewhere can get cheaper service doesn't mean you deserve the same. In the last 15 years we've gone from Dewey decimal to better than Hitchhiker's Guide. Stop your bitching and appreciate what you have. Your ungratefulness is likely to bring a well deserved meteor strike leaving you with fewer telecom options.

w1ntermute 14y ago
> Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me. Telecom is a competitive market. Because it isn't a competitive market. Wireless telecoms have been granted licenses to spectrum by the FCC so they can run their businesses. There's a limited amount of spectrum and it's hard for new companies to get any of it. The wireless telecoms industry is anything but competitive.
- aneth4 14y ago
  There are at least 3 major nationwide providers competing against each other on service and price. There are also many secondary local providers and providers renting networks from the national providers. How is that not competitive?
  - bifftannen 14y ago
    You can't take a unlocked GSM phone onto Verizon or Sprint. You can't take a Verizon phone onto Sprint. You can't take a Sprint phone onto Verizon. The only carrier you can choose with GSM is T-Mobile. But wait, they use the 1900MHz 3G band, so if you've got a phone that doesn't use that band, you're stuck with EDGE data. LTE won't change this, they've chosen different bands.
    - aneth4 14y ago
      You can however sell your phone and buy one for a different network. iPhones in particularly have a very high resale value, and regardless the phone you bought maintains its market value and is resalable. Telecom networks are extremely expensive to build. Having more than a few on the same technology would be wasteful, and consumers benefit from a diversity of technologies in the long run in addition to some level of network compatibility. But seriously, don't like your network? Sell your phone on eBay and buy a different one that works on a different network. How hard is that?
  - krschultz 14y ago
    "Competitive" is not binary. Yes, 4 networks is better than 1, but it's not like you have 30 choices. Even with MVNOs, there aren't many real options. If Verizon were GSM it'd be a lot better, but as of now you are really locked in.
    - aneth4 14y ago
      Your phone is freely salable. You are not locked in.
adrr 14y ago
Its not competitive when everyone is locked in 2 year contacts. Want a true competitive market, get rid of contacts and force people to buy their phones.
- aneth4 14y ago
  There are thousands of people each day signing up for NEW 2 year contracts. The telcos compete for those new and renewing customers.
logn 14y ago
>Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me Did you read the article? ATT detected he had a smartphone and upgraded his plan to include data, forcibly. That's like GM saying, oh we've detected your car comes with OnStar and are activating the OnStar plan. If you don't like it, you're more than free to sell your car.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  The phones are slightly cheaper, but the point stands. Good analogy.
- aneth4 14y ago
  Except you can switch to a different provider. You are not forced to do anything. If AT&T wants to have this requirement, that's their choice, just as it's your choice to use T-Mobile, Verizon, or Sprint.
  - sp332 14y ago
    You can't switch to Verizon or Sprint with a GSM phone.
joelrunyon 14y ago
> Your ungratefulness is likely to bring a well deserved meteor strike leaving you with fewer telecom options. I was perfectly happy with my previous contract. If I'm being "ungrateful" for the privilege of getting charged extra for a service I didn't agree to, then I guess we have different definitions of gratefulness.
- lesterbuck 14y ago
  You keep saying your got "a service <you> didn't agree to", but, of course, you did agree to it. You didn't understand what you were agreeing to, but you accepted all of AT&T terms and conditions as you signed up for their service. And this is hardly news, as AT&T forced data plans on smart phones on Sept 6, 2009. http://gizmodo.com/5342749/att-forcing-data-plans-with-all-smartphones-starting-sept-6 http://gizmodo.com/5342749/att-forcing-data-plans-with-all-s... They have a humorous justification: to keep their customers from having massive data bills by accident. Yeah, right... The key to having a WiFi only smartphone on AT&T is stealth. You must keep a dumb phone around to switch to as necessary, and then you can sneak a smartphone on the network that has never been seen by AT&T as a smartphone. For example, you might buy a T-Mobile (only) unlocked smartphone and then put your AT&T SIM card into it. Be sure to disable all the data network interfaces first thing, as they may give you away. You can buy a dumb phone to AT&T to verify for $15 on sales from GoPhone, or any number of other prepaid phones. I would be interested to know if now, ab initio, AT&T is able to detect that a specific IMEI number is a smartphone. I think the worldwide range of IMEI numbers is too vast for that to work, and thank goodness T-Mobile didn't merge with AT&T.
- aneth4 14y ago
  You have a choice. Switch to T-Mobile. Regardless, calling AT&T scum is out of line. You are not mandated to purchase their services.
  - joelrunyon 14y ago
    I never called them scum. Not my words.
illuminate 14y ago
"Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me." Sometimes, it's crazy, but people expect real competition versus oligopolists that mostly collude between themselves and show zero concern for regulatory action.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  I pay about $14 a month for 800 talk minutes and 300mb data. There is real competition in a few countries, we should expect that in the free market USA.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    Totally agreed. Deregulation and competition are pretty at odds.
DanBC 14y ago
> the now changed policy of refusing to unlock out of contract iPhones was a particular bone > Telecom is a competitive market. Can you appreciate the dissonance between these two statements?
- aneth4 14y ago
  That AT&T changed their policy due to competitive pressures? Not very dissonant.

by aneth4 14y ago

w1ntermute 14y ago

> Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me. Telecom is a competitive market. Because it isn't a competitive market. Wireless telecoms have been granted licenses to spectrum by the FCC so they can run their businesses. There's a limited amount of spectrum and it's hard for new companies to get any of it. The wireless telecoms industry is anything but competitive.

aneth4 14y ago
There are at least 3 major nationwide providers competing against each other on service and price. There are also many secondary local providers and providers renting networks from the national providers. How is that not competitive?
- bifftannen 14y ago
  You can't take a unlocked GSM phone onto Verizon or Sprint. You can't take a Verizon phone onto Sprint. You can't take a Sprint phone onto Verizon. The only carrier you can choose with GSM is T-Mobile. But wait, they use the 1900MHz 3G band, so if you've got a phone that doesn't use that band, you're stuck with EDGE data. LTE won't change this, they've chosen different bands.
  - aneth4 14y ago
    You can however sell your phone and buy one for a different network. iPhones in particularly have a very high resale value, and regardless the phone you bought maintains its market value and is resalable. Telecom networks are extremely expensive to build. Having more than a few on the same technology would be wasteful, and consumers benefit from a diversity of technologies in the long run in addition to some level of network compatibility. But seriously, don't like your network? Sell your phone on eBay and buy a different one that works on a different network. How hard is that?
- krschultz 14y ago
  "Competitive" is not binary. Yes, 4 networks is better than 1, but it's not like you have 30 choices. Even with MVNOs, there aren't many real options. If Verizon were GSM it'd be a lot better, but as of now you are really locked in.
  - aneth4 14y ago
    Your phone is freely salable. You are not locked in.

adrr 14y ago

Its not competitive when everyone is locked in 2 year contacts. Want a true competitive market, get rid of contacts and force people to buy their phones.

aneth4 14y ago
There are thousands of people each day signing up for NEW 2 year contracts. The telcos compete for those new and renewing customers.

logn 14y ago

>Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me Did you read the article? ATT detected he had a smartphone and upgraded his plan to include data, forcibly. That's like GM saying, oh we've detected your car comes with OnStar and are activating the OnStar plan. If you don't like it, you're more than free to sell your car.

joelrunyon 14y ago
The phones are slightly cheaper, but the point stands. Good analogy.
aneth4 14y ago
Except you can switch to a different provider. You are not forced to do anything. If AT&T wants to have this requirement, that's their choice, just as it's your choice to use T-Mobile, Verizon, or Sprint.
- sp332 14y ago
  You can't switch to Verizon or Sprint with a GSM phone.

joelrunyon 14y ago

> Your ungratefulness is likely to bring a well deserved meteor strike leaving you with fewer telecom options. I was perfectly happy with my previous contract. If I'm being "ungrateful" for the privilege of getting charged extra for a service I didn't agree to, then I guess we have different definitions of gratefulness.

lesterbuck 14y ago
You keep saying your got "a service <you> didn't agree to", but, of course, you did agree to it. You didn't understand what you were agreeing to, but you accepted all of AT&T terms and conditions as you signed up for their service. And this is hardly news, as AT&T forced data plans on smart phones on Sept 6, 2009. http://gizmodo.com/5342749/att-forcing-data-plans-with-all-smartphones-starting-sept-6 http://gizmodo.com/5342749/att-forcing-data-plans-with-all-s... They have a humorous justification: to keep their customers from having massive data bills by accident. Yeah, right... The key to having a WiFi only smartphone on AT&T is stealth. You must keep a dumb phone around to switch to as necessary, and then you can sneak a smartphone on the network that has never been seen by AT&T as a smartphone. For example, you might buy a T-Mobile (only) unlocked smartphone and then put your AT&T SIM card into it. Be sure to disable all the data network interfaces first thing, as they may give you away. You can buy a dumb phone to AT&T to verify for $15 on sales from GoPhone, or any number of other prepaid phones. I would be interested to know if now, ab initio, AT&T is able to detect that a specific IMEI number is a smartphone. I think the worldwide range of IMEI numbers is too vast for that to work, and thank goodness T-Mobile didn't merge with AT&T.
aneth4 14y ago
You have a choice. Switch to T-Mobile. Regardless, calling AT&T scum is out of line. You are not mandated to purchase their services.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  I never called them scum. Not my words.

illuminate 14y ago

"Why people feel entitled to services at the price they choose is beyond me." Sometimes, it's crazy, but people expect real competition versus oligopolists that mostly collude between themselves and show zero concern for regulatory action.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
I pay about $14 a month for 800 talk minutes and 300mb data. There is real competition in a few countries, we should expect that in the free market USA.
- illuminate 14y ago
  Totally agreed. Deregulation and competition are pretty at odds.

DanBC 14y ago

> the now changed policy of refusing to unlock out of contract iPhones was a particular bone > Telecom is a competitive market. Can you appreciate the dissonance between these two statements?

aneth4 14y ago
That AT&T changed their policy due to competitive pressures? Not very dissonant.