5 ms·

anti-intellectualism often refers to being anti ivy league more so than actual anti-rationality.

unalone 18y ago
It refers to pretty much anything. It's such an empty phrase. I have heard it used to describe anti-rationality, though. Some people think that it's easier to decide nothing has meaning and nothing makes sense: that way, their own problems aren't their own fault.
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  true, it's as empty a signifier as "conservative" following the rise of the neo-cons. Basic terminology has been blurred to the point of hilarity in regards to any political term. I think this last election has pretty much ruined "intellectualism vs anti-intellectualism" for a few years at least.
modoc 18y ago
I think of it more as being a de-emphasis on grades versus sports in school, how people will make fun of you for using a wide vocabulary with multi-syllabic words, that being smart or well educated is much less important than looks, being good at sports, etc... You heard a lot of this sort of fuss over how Obama's speeches were phrased. Lots of people were angry that he didn't "sound like one of us", or that he was "talking down to us", etc.... For some reason seeing a football player make a touchdown doesn't make the average person feel fat or slow, but hearing someone using "big words" and talking about something harder to understand that last night reality tv show seems to make the average person feel dumb or talked down to. And they lash back.
- iamwil 18y ago
  Supermodels seem to make the average woman feel fat though--enough that there are people advocating plus-size models, etc. What's shared between intellectuals and supermodels that isn't with football players?
  - Radix 18y ago
    I don't understand why. I'm of the same slight build as a supermodel, but most people aren't and a beutiful "plus size" model will still make them feel ugly. Though at least it would give more girls a reasonable weight goal.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    in-group out-group dynamics. notice how everyone refers to a sports team as "our" team. As if the people watching have anything to do with the team's success.
    - eru 18y ago
      Yes. [Though perversely they do influence the success of 'their' team. Where do you think the money comes from?]
  - jimbokun 18y ago
    Maybe it's a mirror neuron thing? Assuming the mirror neuron theory is true (I only read the NY Times version), we actually feel a little bit like we are scoring a touchdown when we watch someone else score a touchdown as a spectator. This is even more true if you have played a little bit of football. Watching an intellectual sitting there thinking deep thoughts, you are mirroring, what? Since you can't observe what is in his head, how can you get any kind of thrill of vicarious participation? The super model case is more complex. I remember another NY Times article about a study in which women got equally excited seeing beautiful, scantily clad women as seeing good looking, scantily clad men. The hypothesized reason was that the women were putting themselves in the place of those women, their mirror neurons imagining being desired/desirable as those women were, perhaps. I'm guessing if the super model comes on the screen while the boyfriend/husband/other men are in the room, then it is more a sense that the image on the screen is a rival for attention? Or maybe a little of both.
- Alex3917 18y ago
  So you believe there should be more emphasis on grades in school?
  - tokenadult 18y ago
    Good question. How about having no emphasis on grades as such, but lots of emphasis on student-directed learning projects, and perhaps academic competitions among schools? Many students learn a lot more mathematics from their math team than from their graded math lessons, for example.
Tangurena 18y ago
de Tocqueville noticed anti-intellectualism was rampant in the US when he wrote Democracy in America 150 years ago. He wrote to try to explain why the US revolution resulted in a democratic nation, while the French revolution a couple years later turned out so terribly bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  what sort of despotism democratic nations have to fear grows more timely every year as the bureaucratic mess that runs the country gets worse. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch4_06.htm http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch4_06.htm
logicalmind 18y ago
I would say that anti-intellectualism is more about people putting faith above reason. An intellectual believes they have the superior mind and can reason about anything. An anti-intellectual believes they have no great intellect and rely on alternative senses to guide them.
- anamax 18y ago
  > I would say that anti-intellectualism is more about people putting faith above reason. Except that it's not. Intellectuals are as faith-driven, if not more so. The difference is that intellectuals think that they're not.
  - logicalmind 18y ago
    Can you give an example of something that intellectuals believe based on faith?
    - anamax 18y ago
      Intellectuals as a group don't have a lot of common beliefs, so my comment was referring to the fact that you can (almost) always find something that each one believes on faith. However, a large fraction of intellectuals do seem to believe that they should be in charge or at least have more control. Do you want to argue that that is "reason" based? I've previously pointed out that intellectuals (1) will "oversell" their expertise, claiming that fact A implies policy B when it actually doesn't and (2) seem to believe that their expertise in one area implies expertise in other areas. Would you blame either of those on faith?

It refers to pretty much anything. It's such an empty phrase. I have heard it used to describe anti-rationality, though. Some people think that it's easier to decide nothing has meaning and nothing makes sense: that way, their own problems aren't their own fault.

nazgulnarsil 18y ago
true, it's as empty a signifier as "conservative" following the rise of the neo-cons. Basic terminology has been blurred to the point of hilarity in regards to any political term. I think this last election has pretty much ruined "intellectualism vs anti-intellectualism" for a few years at least.

modoc 18y ago

I think of it more as being a de-emphasis on grades versus sports in school, how people will make fun of you for using a wide vocabulary with multi-syllabic words, that being smart or well educated is much less important than looks, being good at sports, etc... You heard a lot of this sort of fuss over how Obama's speeches were phrased. Lots of people were angry that he didn't "sound like one of us", or that he was "talking down to us", etc.... For some reason seeing a football player make a touchdown doesn't make the average person feel fat or slow, but hearing someone using "big words" and talking about something harder to understand that last night reality tv show seems to make the average person feel dumb or talked down to. And they lash back.

iamwil 18y ago
Supermodels seem to make the average woman feel fat though--enough that there are people advocating plus-size models, etc. What's shared between intellectuals and supermodels that isn't with football players?
- Radix 18y ago
  I don't understand why. I'm of the same slight build as a supermodel, but most people aren't and a beutiful "plus size" model will still make them feel ugly. Though at least it would give more girls a reasonable weight goal.
- nazgulnarsil 18y ago
  in-group out-group dynamics. notice how everyone refers to a sports team as "our" team. As if the people watching have anything to do with the team's success.
  - eru 18y ago
    Yes. [Though perversely they do influence the success of 'their' team. Where do you think the money comes from?]
- jimbokun 18y ago
  Maybe it's a mirror neuron thing? Assuming the mirror neuron theory is true (I only read the NY Times version), we actually feel a little bit like we are scoring a touchdown when we watch someone else score a touchdown as a spectator. This is even more true if you have played a little bit of football. Watching an intellectual sitting there thinking deep thoughts, you are mirroring, what? Since you can't observe what is in his head, how can you get any kind of thrill of vicarious participation? The super model case is more complex. I remember another NY Times article about a study in which women got equally excited seeing beautiful, scantily clad women as seeing good looking, scantily clad men. The hypothesized reason was that the women were putting themselves in the place of those women, their mirror neurons imagining being desired/desirable as those women were, perhaps. I'm guessing if the super model comes on the screen while the boyfriend/husband/other men are in the room, then it is more a sense that the image on the screen is a rival for attention? Or maybe a little of both.
Alex3917 18y ago
So you believe there should be more emphasis on grades in school?
- tokenadult 18y ago
  Good question. How about having no emphasis on grades as such, but lots of emphasis on student-directed learning projects, and perhaps academic competitions among schools? Many students learn a lot more mathematics from their math team than from their graded math lessons, for example.

Tangurena 18y ago

de Tocqueville noticed anti-intellectualism was rampant in the US when he wrote Democracy in America 150 years ago. He wrote to try to explain why the US revolution resulted in a democratic nation, while the French revolution a couple years later turned out so terribly bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America

nazgulnarsil 18y ago
what sort of despotism democratic nations have to fear grows more timely every year as the bureaucratic mess that runs the country gets worse. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch4_06.htm http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/ch4_06.htm

logicalmind 18y ago

I would say that anti-intellectualism is more about people putting faith above reason. An intellectual believes they have the superior mind and can reason about anything. An anti-intellectual believes they have no great intellect and rely on alternative senses to guide them.

anamax 18y ago
> I would say that anti-intellectualism is more about people putting faith above reason. Except that it's not. Intellectuals are as faith-driven, if not more so. The difference is that intellectuals think that they're not.
- logicalmind 18y ago
  Can you give an example of something that intellectuals believe based on faith?
  - anamax 18y ago
    Intellectuals as a group don't have a lot of common beliefs, so my comment was referring to the fact that you can (almost) always find something that each one believes on faith. However, a large fraction of intellectuals do seem to believe that they should be in charge or at least have more control. Do you want to argue that that is "reason" based? I've previously pointed out that intellectuals (1) will "oversell" their expertise, claiming that fact A implies policy B when it actually doesn't and (2) seem to believe that their expertise in one area implies expertise in other areas. Would you blame either of those on faith?