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no doubt Boeing know that even if the batteries smoke and fail they wont be a threat to safety, but Musk has a better handle on marketing. If there is smoke on

by djt 14y ago

no doubt Boeing know that even if the batteries smoke and fail they wont be a threat to safety, but Musk has a better handle on marketing. If there is smoke on a plane or car people expect the worst, regardless of if it is actually a safety issue.

jlgreco 14y ago
I don't know, don't Li-ion batteries tend to fail fairly spectacularly? Those melted cars after Sandy come to mind.
martinced 14y ago
From my limited experience with smoke in cars, sadly they often turn to fire. Because, you know, like the first humans that did create fire, very often when a fire starts there's smoke... I've seen a Saab in which the ashtray started to smoke and then before we could pull out (on the highway) the dashboard had flames and started to melt. And I've seen a very nice and shiny Porsche 911 Carrera model 964 whose alternator belt did broke and then started "burning" on the engine. We smelled it and then we could see smoke. By the time we opened the engine trunk (with our fire extinguisher in hand) it was on fire. Funnily enough the repair were under warranty and there wasn't much to change (the trunk needed to be repaint and one or two pieces changed). When there is unexpected smoke on a plane it is a safety issue. Seen that a Boeing supplier's factory went up in flames due to a battery that took fire, I'm not exactly sure there's "no doubt Boeing know that even if the batteries smoke and fail they won't be a threat to safety". Same for the 16 hybrid sport cars that burst into flames on that parking lot due to batteries shorting. I think that: "There's no smoke without fire" may be the sentence you're after ; )
- Joe_Knapp 14y ago
  I don't think smoke is the issue. It's toxic fumes. It's not like you can open a window.
- djt 14y ago
  yes in a Petrol car there is a problem with smoke = fire. My whole point is that smoke in a petrol engine usually means something as either caught fire etc. Smoke in a Battery compartment may or may not. Is it a safety issue? Probably, but not definitely. Do the general public have a problem with smoke on a plane? Hell yes. Our experience with traditional cars and planes is that where there is smoke there is fire. That may or may not be true with the batteries, I dont know but I do know that Boeing do a LOT of testing, so would be suprised to see a plane go down due to these problems. I believe the cars you were talking about were completely submerged in sea water and then caught fire. Presumably any car or plane submerged in sea water will get written off which is probably why they dont worry too much about it.
geekylucas 14y ago
Li-ion fires tend to generate oxygen and so they are quite hard to put out. At 30,000 ft in the air I would consider this a fairly significant threat to safety.
- joezydeco 14y ago
  Lot of shipping companies won't even handle Lithium batteries (over a certain size or quantity) on their flights. FedEx's shipping guide, as an example: http://www.fedex.com/downloads/shared/packagingtips/battery_brochure.pdf http://www.fedex.com/downloads/shared/packagingtips/battery_...
jonknee 14y ago
The batteries actually went up in flames though, it wasn't just smoke (I'm recalling the the adage about where there's smoke there's fire). The new flagship plane from Boeing wasn't grounded worldwide because there was no threat to safety.

by djt 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago

I don't know, don't Li-ion batteries tend to fail fairly spectacularly? Those melted cars after Sandy come to mind.

martinced 14y ago

From my limited experience with smoke in cars, sadly they often turn to fire. Because, you know, like the first humans that did create fire, very often when a fire starts there's smoke... I've seen a Saab in which the ashtray started to smoke and then before we could pull out (on the highway) the dashboard had flames and started to melt. And I've seen a very nice and shiny Porsche 911 Carrera model 964 whose alternator belt did broke and then started "burning" on the engine. We smelled it and then we could see smoke. By the time we opened the engine trunk (with our fire extinguisher in hand) it was on fire. Funnily enough the repair were under warranty and there wasn't much to change (the trunk needed to be repaint and one or two pieces changed). When there is unexpected smoke on a plane it is a safety issue. Seen that a Boeing supplier's factory went up in flames due to a battery that took fire, I'm not exactly sure there's "no doubt Boeing know that even if the batteries smoke and fail they won't be a threat to safety". Same for the 16 hybrid sport cars that burst into flames on that parking lot due to batteries shorting. I think that: "There's no smoke without fire" may be the sentence you're after ; )

Joe_Knapp 14y ago
I don't think smoke is the issue. It's toxic fumes. It's not like you can open a window.
djt 14y ago
yes in a Petrol car there is a problem with smoke = fire. My whole point is that smoke in a petrol engine usually means something as either caught fire etc. Smoke in a Battery compartment may or may not. Is it a safety issue? Probably, but not definitely. Do the general public have a problem with smoke on a plane? Hell yes. Our experience with traditional cars and planes is that where there is smoke there is fire. That may or may not be true with the batteries, I dont know but I do know that Boeing do a LOT of testing, so would be suprised to see a plane go down due to these problems. I believe the cars you were talking about were completely submerged in sea water and then caught fire. Presumably any car or plane submerged in sea water will get written off which is probably why they dont worry too much about it.

geekylucas 14y ago

Li-ion fires tend to generate oxygen and so they are quite hard to put out. At 30,000 ft in the air I would consider this a fairly significant threat to safety.

joezydeco 14y ago
Lot of shipping companies won't even handle Lithium batteries (over a certain size or quantity) on their flights. FedEx's shipping guide, as an example: http://www.fedex.com/downloads/shared/packagingtips/battery_brochure.pdf http://www.fedex.com/downloads/shared/packagingtips/battery_...

jonknee 14y ago

The batteries actually went up in flames though, it wasn't just smoke (I'm recalling the the adage about where there's smoke there's fire). The new flagship plane from Boeing wasn't grounded worldwide because there was no threat to safety.