6 ms·

I think one of the uncomfortable truths that people don't like to talk about in Silicon Valley is how much nepotism and old-boy-network is wrapped up in the clo

I think one of the uncomfortable truths that people don't like to talk about in Silicon Valley is how much nepotism and old-boy-network is wrapped up in the clothing of "hiring from top schools". Social proof sounds really good until you start to think through that a lot of so called social proof actually comes from relationships built through serendipity of what school your parents could afford to send you to. It's not unusual, to steal a line from elsewhere, to be born on third base and think you hit a triple. I see this even more with MBAs than comp sci and particularly in downturns (having been in Silicon Valley a long time now) where weaker VCs invest in MBA buddies as easy decisions in tough climates. Credentials are great as lazy decision making tools for big co hr departments - you don't get fired for hiring the Ivy Leaguer. But for startups make sure you're hiring for what someone can do and has done, not for what paperwork they've accumulated. I've made the mistake of hiring the high flying Ivy League wunderkind straight out of college, highly recommended... it was an absolute disaster but my own fault for taking this as proxy for being good on a startup.

pcl 14y ago
It's not unusual, to steal a line from elsewhere, to be born on third base and think you hit a triple. That's a fantastic expression. I just looked it up -- the internet thinks that it originated with Barry Switzer, a former head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/23536.html http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/23536.html
- shawnc 14y ago
  Cool, thanks for sharing that. I new it from the Pearl Jam song 'Bushleaguer' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nhyhlzLwIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nhyhlzLwIw
- mjn 14y ago
  My sense of order would've been served better if one of baseball's many famous wisecracks had come up with that line. A football coach originating baseball metaphors, egads!
- richardjordan 14y ago
  I'd always heard it in the context of people using it to describe children of privilege who assume everything they achieved in life was down to their own merit. I remember it being used (and I am not making a political statement either way) in regard to George W. Bush, and I've seen it used in regards to certain CEOs and execs who got their positions because of work their parents or grandparents put in rather than on their own efforts.
- skmurphy 14y ago
  The kernel of "born on third base" is 50 years older. "The Yale Book of Quotations" lists several variations from the 1930's the oldest is from 12 May 1934, Hammond (IN) Times, pg. 4, col. 2: "A genius is one who seems a wonder because he was born on third base." h/t http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/born_on_third_base_and_thinks_he_hit_a_triple_a_privileged_person/ http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/born...
alaskamiller 14y ago
I believe this is also an indicator of an industry maturing. Spin back to ten years ago and Silicon Valley wasn't wholly reliant only on institutional knowledge and skillsets were earned through work experience. Hiring a stereotypical computer hacker that's also a social misfit rebel was because those were the ones possessing the skills that colleges didn't teach. My boss while I was at the big fruit company told me stories about how back then, back when it was still a garage startup of the literal sense, if someone showed up, poking around, and asked for a job was given some job to do. If they lasted and are competent they were hired. Only the true nerds came around, because only true nerds cared about computers. That's not true nowadays. Now that the body of knowledge has been collected and distributed, now that the lead time has diminished and colleges are teaching skills in almost real time, a college degree has a benefit of sorting those capable of finishing a 4 year project and those that don't. The lambda between two candidates, one that earned his stripes while on the job while the other having a degree, has diminished. In that case, why risk it? No one ever got fired for investing or hiring an Ivy League grad.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  Now that the body of knowledge has been collected and distributed, now that the lead time has diminished and colleges are teaching skills in almost real time, a college degree has a benefit of sorting those capable of finishing a 4 year project and those that don't. I would feel better about this new status quo if there were more meaningful overlap between what they teach in universities and what skills one needs to be a successful software developer.
  - alaskamiller 14y ago
    Quite a loaded statement. Are top-ranked colleges not adequately preparing their students paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a successful software developer? Are there not enough work to go around for software developers of all levels?
    - bensw 14y ago
      There's plenty of work to go around; unfortunately many companies blind themselves to only hiring top-rank college grads. People complain about a lack of talent in the technology world--some of that has to do with the absurd hiring practices of technology companies
mayanksinghal 14y ago
Pardon me if I am wrong, because I believe I am more clueless than most, but the reasons VCs invest in their MBA buddies may not be because that is an easy (as in lazy) decision but because it is a safe decision. Traditional coaching does ensure that the candidate has at least his/her basics clear. Of course, the decision has to take into account the necessary skills as well, there is no denying that, but Ivy League should be guaranteeing some minimum competency. > .. Silicon Valley is how much nepotism and old-boy-network If I am ever in a position to hire (and affect through it entirely and only my own economic well being) I wouldn't mind having people I enjoy company of and can relate to. Genuinely awesome people are a plus point, but even in that category if I am able to find people who share the same background as mine, is it really that bad a decision? > It was an absolute disaster but my own fault for taking this as proxy for being good on a startup But there are bad apples in all baskets. I am sure there would be some evidence of great hackers without Ivy League credentials being poor matches for some startups. And I am not arguing that credential replace the need for a test of actual skills, interest and commitment; I am just arguing that the probability of the candidate possessing some minimum value for all three points is fairly high.
- lilsunnybee 14y ago
  > If I am ever in a position to hire (and affect through it entirely and only my own economic well being) I wouldn't mind having people I enjoy company of and can relate to. Genuinely awesome people are a plus point, but even in that category if I am able to find people who share the same background as mine, is it really that bad a decision? Yes, it's the opposite of a meritocracy, which i'm not sure if there's a specific word for. Very close to cronyism.
  - mayanksinghal 14y ago
    > It's the opposite of a meritocracy ... You seem to ignore the part where I mention that the two candidates are of equivalent if not equal skill set. If pure technical expertise was all that was expected from people, we wouldn't be singing songs about people-skills, entrepreneurial spirit and cultural _fitness_ like we do. Most of these values decide only how well the person is going to gel with the team.

pcl 14y ago

It's not unusual, to steal a line from elsewhere, to be born on third base and think you hit a triple. That's a fantastic expression. I just looked it up -- the internet thinks that it originated with Barry Switzer, a former head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/23536.html http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/23536.html

shawnc 14y ago
Cool, thanks for sharing that. I new it from the Pearl Jam song 'Bushleaguer' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nhyhlzLwIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nhyhlzLwIw
mjn 14y ago
My sense of order would've been served better if one of baseball's many famous wisecracks had come up with that line. A football coach originating baseball metaphors, egads!
richardjordan 14y ago
I'd always heard it in the context of people using it to describe children of privilege who assume everything they achieved in life was down to their own merit. I remember it being used (and I am not making a political statement either way) in regard to George W. Bush, and I've seen it used in regards to certain CEOs and execs who got their positions because of work their parents or grandparents put in rather than on their own efforts.
skmurphy 14y ago
The kernel of "born on third base" is 50 years older. "The Yale Book of Quotations" lists several variations from the 1930's the oldest is from 12 May 1934, Hammond (IN) Times, pg. 4, col. 2: "A genius is one who seems a wonder because he was born on third base." h/t http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/born_on_third_base_and_thinks_he_hit_a_triple_a_privileged_person/ http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/born...

alaskamiller 14y ago

I believe this is also an indicator of an industry maturing. Spin back to ten years ago and Silicon Valley wasn't wholly reliant only on institutional knowledge and skillsets were earned through work experience. Hiring a stereotypical computer hacker that's also a social misfit rebel was because those were the ones possessing the skills that colleges didn't teach. My boss while I was at the big fruit company told me stories about how back then, back when it was still a garage startup of the literal sense, if someone showed up, poking around, and asked for a job was given some job to do. If they lasted and are competent they were hired. Only the true nerds came around, because only true nerds cared about computers. That's not true nowadays. Now that the body of knowledge has been collected and distributed, now that the lead time has diminished and colleges are teaching skills in almost real time, a college degree has a benefit of sorting those capable of finishing a 4 year project and those that don't. The lambda between two candidates, one that earned his stripes while on the job while the other having a degree, has diminished. In that case, why risk it? No one ever got fired for investing or hiring an Ivy League grad.

MartinCron 14y ago
Now that the body of knowledge has been collected and distributed, now that the lead time has diminished and colleges are teaching skills in almost real time, a college degree has a benefit of sorting those capable of finishing a 4 year project and those that don't. I would feel better about this new status quo if there were more meaningful overlap between what they teach in universities and what skills one needs to be a successful software developer.
- alaskamiller 14y ago
  Quite a loaded statement. Are top-ranked colleges not adequately preparing their students paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a successful software developer? Are there not enough work to go around for software developers of all levels?
  - bensw 14y ago
    There's plenty of work to go around; unfortunately many companies blind themselves to only hiring top-rank college grads. People complain about a lack of talent in the technology world--some of that has to do with the absurd hiring practices of technology companies

mayanksinghal 14y ago

Pardon me if I am wrong, because I believe I am more clueless than most, but the reasons VCs invest in their MBA buddies may not be because that is an easy (as in lazy) decision but because it is a safe decision. Traditional coaching does ensure that the candidate has at least his/her basics clear. Of course, the decision has to take into account the necessary skills as well, there is no denying that, but Ivy League should be guaranteeing some minimum competency. > .. Silicon Valley is how much nepotism and old-boy-network If I am ever in a position to hire (and affect through it entirely and only my own economic well being) I wouldn't mind having people I enjoy company of and can relate to. Genuinely awesome people are a plus point, but even in that category if I am able to find people who share the same background as mine, is it really that bad a decision? > It was an absolute disaster but my own fault for taking this as proxy for being good on a startup But there are bad apples in all baskets. I am sure there would be some evidence of great hackers without Ivy League credentials being poor matches for some startups. And I am not arguing that credential replace the need for a test of actual skills, interest and commitment; I am just arguing that the probability of the candidate possessing some minimum value for all three points is fairly high.

lilsunnybee 14y ago
> If I am ever in a position to hire (and affect through it entirely and only my own economic well being) I wouldn't mind having people I enjoy company of and can relate to. Genuinely awesome people are a plus point, but even in that category if I am able to find people who share the same background as mine, is it really that bad a decision? Yes, it's the opposite of a meritocracy, which i'm not sure if there's a specific word for. Very close to cronyism.
- mayanksinghal 14y ago
  > It's the opposite of a meritocracy ... You seem to ignore the part where I mention that the two candidates are of equivalent if not equal skill set. If pure technical expertise was all that was expected from people, we wouldn't be singing songs about people-skills, entrepreneurial spirit and cultural _fitness_ like we do. Most of these values decide only how well the person is going to gel with the team.