7 ms·

The fascinating tl;dr: The British lost their English accents around the turn of the 19th century. As far as rhotic r's go, Americans still mostly speak the way

by aston 14y ago

The fascinating tl;dr: The British lost their English accents around the turn of the 19th century. As far as rhotic r's go, Americans still mostly speak the way Brits and Americans did in the 18th century.

jinushaun 14y ago
IMO, no discussion about the loss of "British accents" in America can be complete without including Canada, Australia and South Africa in the mix. I always found it fascinating that the US and Australia have such dramatically different "standard" accents despite both being former British colonies. Btw, anyone wanting to search for the "missing link" should visit Bermuda. Strange mix of GA and RP.
- dmoo 14y ago
  Also interesting is how close the Newfoundland accent has stayed to the rural Irish one. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLuIXwsLDw
- wluu 14y ago
  Ah, Australian "English"... :) I'd say (in Australia), our English was influenced to an extent by the local population (ie: Aboriginal Australians) to a degree in addition to British English. Here's a few references: * "history & accent change" - http://clas.mq.edu.au/australian-voices/history-accent-change http://clas.mq.edu.au/australian-voices/history-accent-chang... * "australian accent" - http://clas.mq.edu.au/voices/australian-accent http://clas.mq.edu.au/voices/australian-accent * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English Might also be a good idea (if you're curious) to contrast/compare Australian English with New Zealand English. Subtle differences, but they are there. It's a mighty big topic if you really want to delve into it in any detail.
  - toyg 14y ago
    "Subtle" is a relative term here: I'm Italian, not particularly trained in languages, and I can easily tell NZ and Aussies apart. NZ vowels are even crazier than the already-bonkers Australian ones.
davidw 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents Interesting maps - significant portions of England were still rhotic in the 1950ies. Incidentally, it's fascinating how much accents and dialects can change in such a short distance in Europe. Within a few hours bicycling distance from Padova, people can tell that someone is from here and not whatever town they're in. Compare and contrast with my Oregon upbringing, which no one could place anywhere specific in the Western US with any degree of accuracy. Another fascinating tidbit is New Mexican Spanish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish Which became way more isolated from Spain than the US ever was from England.
- arethuza 14y ago
  A few hours cycling is nothing - when I grew up in the North East of Scotland people from the coastal fishing villages had quite different accents to people from farms maybe 1 km or so inland. [NB When the BBC did a TV series featuring fishermen from near where I grew up they had to give the show subtitles so it could be understood in the rest of the UK ;-)] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawlermen_%28TV_series%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawlermen_%28TV_series%29
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- petercooper 14y ago
  I live in Lincolnshire, a large county on the east coast of England, and after ten years of being here, I can distinguish a native of my town of Louth from one of Cleethorpes, 15 miles away. 35 miles south of here, in the original Boston, the local accent is rather different again. Most Brits would not notice the difference as Lincolnshire accents are broadly unrecognized nationally, though any Brit (and, perhaps, many Americans?) could distinguish a Scouse (Liverpool) accent from a Mancunian (Manchester) one - only 27 miles apart. Think Beatles vs Oasis here. Sadly, though, this does only work on true, thoroughbred natives - a small percentage of the population in most areas now due to the frequent movement of people around England.
dmmalam 14y ago
history of english http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s
laumars 14y ago
A Brit' here, most British dialects are heavy on the R's. Whether that's the rural accents ranging from the Cornish (south west) to Norfolk (south east). Then you have the harsher sounding dialects of the north east - who also seem quite rhotic (or at least, the thicker accents are). Then you have the Welsh and -as mentioned in the article- the Scottish and Irish who all also emphasise their R's (it's quite amusing when I hang out with some of my Scottish friends as they can't pronounce "Karl", so every time they call his name, my other friend "Carol" answers!) The ironic thing is, the way the English are perceived to speak isn't the way how 99% of English (let alone British) people speak. Even in London and it's overspills (the neighbouring counties), which is where our dialects are the least rhotic, most people don't pronounce themselves in the same way as they do in American TV. But I can understand why the stereotyped accent is used; it's a slower and more clearly spoken - which is ideal for broadcasting where the actor needs to be heard and understood by the audience. Many of the northern accents are spoken with such speed that it can be difficult for an untrained ear; even for some of us English! It's also a sexier dialect (few sane people would fall in love with a Geordie accent, Brummie or even Cockney, if they weren't already brought up in that area. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to find youtube videos for some of the more distinct dialects. [edit] Just been chatting to my wife about this. She's from the north east of England, I'm from the south. It seems I've overstated the amount of emphasis the north east places on their R's. I'm not sure if I'm alone about this, but the funny thing about pronunciation is the moment you're asked to think about the way you pronounce a word, you've instantly forgotten how you normally talk!
- gcv 14y ago
  Please do! I'd be especially interested in some of the ones you mentioned: Geordie and Brummie. Also, some of the harder-to-understand ones. I can understand Yorkshire pretty well, but maybe some others would give me trouble.
  - laumars 14y ago
    This is taken from a British sitcom, 'Alan Partridge'. It features a Norfolk and a Geordie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSHHbfY6MVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSHHbfY6MVc It's actually a pretty good example of a Newcastle (Geordie) accent despite being a comedy show. Finding a good example of a Brummie accent as proven more tricky as I'm either stumbling across paradises where they over accentuate the "twang", or TV personalities where the access is suppressed a little. Ozzy Osbourne is from that area and in his interviews you can sometimes hear the accent showing through. The pronunciation itself isn't hard to understand; I highlighted it because it's a unique accent. I think these days it's mellowed quite a bit though. This video isn't work safe, but it's the best example of a Welsh accent I could find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUrMEZWj5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUrMEZWj5o (this is also probably the accent I hate the most - I couldn't explain why, but it just grinds) This is the Cornish (south west) accent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbxdZE3g80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbxdZE3g80 It's probably the closest to the old Shakespearian English that someone linked to in these comments.
kafkaesque 14y ago
This is slightly off topic, but here is a map of American and Canadian English dialects and accents: http://aschmann.net/AmEng/ http://aschmann.net/AmEng/ There are few major pronunciation differences, yet many subtle differences!

by aston 14y ago

jinushaun 14y ago

IMO, no discussion about the loss of "British accents" in America can be complete without including Canada, Australia and South Africa in the mix. I always found it fascinating that the US and Australia have such dramatically different "standard" accents despite both being former British colonies. Btw, anyone wanting to search for the "missing link" should visit Bermuda. Strange mix of GA and RP.

dmoo 14y ago
Also interesting is how close the Newfoundland accent has stayed to the rural Irish one. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLuIXwsLDw
wluu 14y ago
Ah, Australian "English"... :) I'd say (in Australia), our English was influenced to an extent by the local population (ie: Aboriginal Australians) to a degree in addition to British English. Here's a few references: * "history & accent change" - http://clas.mq.edu.au/australian-voices/history-accent-change http://clas.mq.edu.au/australian-voices/history-accent-chang... * "australian accent" - http://clas.mq.edu.au/voices/australian-accent http://clas.mq.edu.au/voices/australian-accent * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_English Might also be a good idea (if you're curious) to contrast/compare Australian English with New Zealand English. Subtle differences, but they are there. It's a mighty big topic if you really want to delve into it in any detail.
- toyg 14y ago
  "Subtle" is a relative term here: I'm Italian, not particularly trained in languages, and I can easily tell NZ and Aussies apart. NZ vowels are even crazier than the already-bonkers Australian ones.

davidw 14y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents Interesting maps - significant portions of England were still rhotic in the 1950ies. Incidentally, it's fascinating how much accents and dialects can change in such a short distance in Europe. Within a few hours bicycling distance from Padova, people can tell that someone is from here and not whatever town they're in. Compare and contrast with my Oregon upbringing, which no one could place anywhere specific in the Western US with any degree of accuracy. Another fascinating tidbit is New Mexican Spanish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish Which became way more isolated from Spain than the US ever was from England.

arethuza 14y ago
A few hours cycling is nothing - when I grew up in the North East of Scotland people from the coastal fishing villages had quite different accents to people from farms maybe 1 km or so inland. [NB When the BBC did a TV series featuring fishermen from near where I grew up they had to give the show subtitles so it could be understood in the rest of the UK ;-)] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawlermen_%28TV_series%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawlermen_%28TV_series%29
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
petercooper 14y ago
I live in Lincolnshire, a large county on the east coast of England, and after ten years of being here, I can distinguish a native of my town of Louth from one of Cleethorpes, 15 miles away. 35 miles south of here, in the original Boston, the local accent is rather different again. Most Brits would not notice the difference as Lincolnshire accents are broadly unrecognized nationally, though any Brit (and, perhaps, many Americans?) could distinguish a Scouse (Liverpool) accent from a Mancunian (Manchester) one - only 27 miles apart. Think Beatles vs Oasis here. Sadly, though, this does only work on true, thoroughbred natives - a small percentage of the population in most areas now due to the frequent movement of people around England.

dmmalam 14y ago

history of english http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s

laumars 14y ago

A Brit' here, most British dialects are heavy on the R's. Whether that's the rural accents ranging from the Cornish (south west) to Norfolk (south east). Then you have the harsher sounding dialects of the north east - who also seem quite rhotic (or at least, the thicker accents are). Then you have the Welsh and -as mentioned in the article- the Scottish and Irish who all also emphasise their R's (it's quite amusing when I hang out with some of my Scottish friends as they can't pronounce "Karl", so every time they call his name, my other friend "Carol" answers!) The ironic thing is, the way the English are perceived to speak isn't the way how 99% of English (let alone British) people speak. Even in London and it's overspills (the neighbouring counties), which is where our dialects are the least rhotic, most people don't pronounce themselves in the same way as they do in American TV. But I can understand why the stereotyped accent is used; it's a slower and more clearly spoken - which is ideal for broadcasting where the actor needs to be heard and understood by the audience. Many of the northern accents are spoken with such speed that it can be difficult for an untrained ear; even for some of us English! It's also a sexier dialect (few sane people would fall in love with a Geordie accent, Brummie or even Cockney, if they weren't already brought up in that area. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to find youtube videos for some of the more distinct dialects. [edit] Just been chatting to my wife about this. She's from the north east of England, I'm from the south. It seems I've overstated the amount of emphasis the north east places on their R's. I'm not sure if I'm alone about this, but the funny thing about pronunciation is the moment you're asked to think about the way you pronounce a word, you've instantly forgotten how you normally talk!

gcv 14y ago
Please do! I'd be especially interested in some of the ones you mentioned: Geordie and Brummie. Also, some of the harder-to-understand ones. I can understand Yorkshire pretty well, but maybe some others would give me trouble.
- laumars 14y ago
  This is taken from a British sitcom, 'Alan Partridge'. It features a Norfolk and a Geordie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSHHbfY6MVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSHHbfY6MVc It's actually a pretty good example of a Newcastle (Geordie) accent despite being a comedy show. Finding a good example of a Brummie accent as proven more tricky as I'm either stumbling across paradises where they over accentuate the "twang", or TV personalities where the access is suppressed a little. Ozzy Osbourne is from that area and in his interviews you can sometimes hear the accent showing through. The pronunciation itself isn't hard to understand; I highlighted it because it's a unique accent. I think these days it's mellowed quite a bit though. This video isn't work safe, but it's the best example of a Welsh accent I could find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUrMEZWj5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUrMEZWj5o (this is also probably the accent I hate the most - I couldn't explain why, but it just grinds) This is the Cornish (south west) accent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbxdZE3g80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbxdZE3g80 It's probably the closest to the old Shakespearian English that someone linked to in these comments.

kafkaesque 14y ago

This is slightly off topic, but here is a map of American and Canadian English dialects and accents: http://aschmann.net/AmEng/ http://aschmann.net/AmEng/ There are few major pronunciation differences, yet many subtle differences!