8 ms·
I don't want systemd because I don't trust Lennart Poettering to be able to write reliable code.
by curlypaul924 14y ago
I don't want systemd because I don't trust Lennart Poettering to be able to write reliable code.
- chris_wot 14y agoWhy the heck do people whale on him so much?
- betterunix 14y agoWell, consider his response here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461546 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461546 First, he denies that this is something people need. Then, when he is told that people need it, he says that they are just doing things the wrong way. Then, when people point out that this is neither unusual nor the wrong thing to want to do, he just repeats that this is not what was intended so too bad. He offers no advice on how to do things the right way despite being the only person who seems to think that everyone else is wrong.
- glogla 14y agoYes, that bug discussion show very well what's wrong with Lennart and his software.
- mverwijs 14y agoI also find it telling how he closes the ticket asking everyone to go upstream and use PulseAudio's ticket system (http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/606 http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/606), which gives me this error: ------------------------------- Internal Server Error TracError: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/lennart/svn/trac/pulseaudio/VERSION' -------------------------------- That kind of sums up.
- chris_wot 14y agoHe doesn't run a bug tracker any more?
- mverwijs 14y agoI don't like the idea of anyone running mission critical services from their homedir.
- __david__ 14y agoWhy not?
- cnvogel 14y agoI think a lot of the benefits you get by running services on separated paths, as special-purpose users, ... is that you minimize side-effects provoked by work on other parts of the system. For data shared by sevaral users, I very much prefer some separate /data/service/instance/... structure. Also much easier to allocate sane directory permissions.
- mverwijs 14y agoSo what is the homedir for? "Home directories for users". See 'man hier'. This to me means it is not a directory for services. This doesn't answer your question of course. There is still the 'why' of it. Why has this become the standard? The homedir is a volatile place. Where users reside often. And make changes often. Any place humans change things is a place where stuff breaks easily and on a regular basis. What if Lennard calls 'rm' with a wrong switch? Or chown? Or chmod? The service receives pain. Or he could decide that he no longer wants his homedir to be readable/executable by everyone on the system, so he chmod 0700 his homedir. Forgetting that this will render his trac instance unavailable. Or what about sharing some responsibility? How is Lennard ever going to share the maintenance of the ticketing system with anyone else? What impact will that have on the ticketing system? Will it have to be migrated anyway to /srv or /usr/local or /opt? What configs will that affect? What about the webserver configs? What about file permissions, uids, gids? What about backups? Are they configured for this specific service? If it is ever migrated to another location, do they have to be reconfigured? Or will /home/lennard just be backed up as before and no one will remember that trac is now in /srv/trac, making a restore improbable. What about a reboot? Will the service come back up? What if you have to re-implement this service on another machine after this one explodes? Are you sure you did not forget to point /etc/rc.local (or some other hack) to your new machine? These are only the reasons I could think of off the top of my head. And most of these are actual examples from the field. A standard is a standard, because it works for more people than just you. The question you, and lennard, should be asking yourself is: How can these standards work for me as well? (As you can probably tell, I grew up in Ops, not Dev. I have seen the pain of the 'works-for-me'-mentality.) Also, cnvogel is obviously more consise than me. :-)
- bitwize 14y agoHe's this decade's Ulrich Drepper.
- mseepgood 14y agoDrepper is a very nice and intelligent guy. I liked his recent foss.in talks: "Why knowing your hardware is important" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUdVFZBd5g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUdVFZBd5g "Scalable Parallel Programming Techniques" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfimI7UC9Pg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfimI7UC9Pg
- jeltz 14y agoOne reason is that pulseaudio broke audio for many Linux users (including me). Linux audio has long been problematic but had reached a point of stability when pulseaudio was adopted by some of the major distributions. I have no idea if the problem was that pulseaudio was broken, with distributors messing up, or with Linux audio drivers. When a problem is easily solved by just an "apt-get remove X" it is easy to start hating the piece of software. No matter who was actually at fault.
- ElliotH 14y agoThe thing is that this is a really dated opinion. While I realise that it was really painful for those months, the end result is that audio on Linux seems to work a hell of a lot better these days. By making Linux audio temporarily problematic Linux audio became a solved problem (at least in my mind, and the minds of many users of the major distributions that use it)
- throwaway2048 14y agoExcept its not dated at all. I have constant issues with PA randomly failing to do basic things like mixing, or outputting any sound at all on newest code releases. This is still a real problem for people, pretending it isnt and everything is solved and working because it works for you is an incredibly shitty attitude. Stop it. And yes I reported the bugs.
- bkor 14y agoI receive all the bugs for Mageia. I don't notice bugreports for PulseAudio like what you describe. Seems very aggressive to suggest that someone has a "incredibly shitty attitude" just because someone has a different perception.
- throwaway2048 14y agoit's rather frustrating to be continuously told your problems don't exist because they aren't a problem for somebody else.
- donniezazen 14y agoHave you reviewed Systemd code and submit changes to make it more reliable?
- nsmartt 14y agoNot everyone has time to contribute to every project that may be useful in some way. If something else works the way one wants, there's no call to put time and energy into a competing project.
- donniezazen 14y agoBut you do have time to discredit people and make personal comment without actually reviewing their work yourself.
- chipotle_coyote 14y agoYou seem to be implicitly claiming that one only earns a right to critique the usability of a given piece of software if one is also capable of debugging and enhancing that software. Do you really believe that?
- donniezazen 14y agoYes, you should be an expert of the field to critique it. Otherwise you are talking about thing that you don't know yourself.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- nsmartt 14y agoYou don't need to be an expert in the culinary arts to determine the tastiness of a dish.
- 14y ago
- 4ad 14y agoDownvoting this post is unwarranted. Everything that Lennart Poettering has ever done was an unreliable clusterfuck[1] astray from the Unix philosphy. There's nothing that he has ever done that is considered "good" by a majority of Unix-derivative users. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0
- mseepgood 14y ago> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0 Poettering has clearly the better arguments than this reactionary Draxinger die-hard.
- chipsy 14y agoPoettering gets things wrong more than once, and Draxinger could have stomped him, if he were a little bit more informed on the details.
- koide 14y agoCan you chime in and inform us where is Lennart wrong and how? I (and probably many others) would LOVE that.
- fosap 14y agoI'm not going to watch this cringeworthy thing again, but i can remember than he insisted that dbus was useful and that we need a gnome session in our login manager. That would be enough to proof the point.
- koide 14y agoAnd the point is that the arguments he made about why dbus is useful (a lightweight IPC mechanism with use cases not covered by UNIX sockets or TCP sockets, doing much more) and why do we need a gnome session on the gdm (to get i18n, network and accessibility features you need most if not all of the session) are well reasoned and make sense to us out of the loop. Could you provide the counterarguments?