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“Dashan,” the Canadian Comedian Who Achieved Stardom in China

79 points by gruseom 14y ago

gruseom 14y ago
The post also links to this brilliant analysis by Rowswell himself of his character, how Westerners perceive him, and how he fits into Chinese culture: http://www.quora.com/Learning-Chinese-1/Why-do-so-many-Chinese-learners-seem-to-hate-Dashan-Mark-Rowswell/answer/Mark-Rowswell http://www.quora.com/Learning-Chinese-1/Why-do-so-many-Chine...
- agscala 14y ago
  Brilliant is an understatement. I've never seen this level of self-awareness before. Also, I simply can't believe how I've never heard his stage name once, despite how insanely popular he is in China.
  - gruseom 14y ago
    Those were my thoughts exactly. I actually wrote him to say that he should expand that piece into a book. It would be unique.
  - pekk 14y ago
    I'm afraid you may have misread him, and this is partially a cultural issue. When he seems to be saying something very subtle and gentle, it may be intended as a crushing criticism. And you lose face for not perceiving it.
- paulgb 14y ago
  Pastebin mirror for non-Quora users: http://pastebin.com/hxvpjabr http://pastebin.com/hxvpjabr
- marme 14y ago
  Roswell is a very interesting guy. He knows exactly why everyone hates him so much but there is nothing really he can do about it. He enjoys being the "dancing monkey" that all the chinese people knows. He likes what he does and does not care that it bothers others. He does act a bit smug at time and acts like he is gods gift to chinese people which bothers a lot foreigners in china because they all get compared to him. He also loves to chime in when people talk about him on the internet, this quora post is not the first time he has gone on the internet to try to defend himself
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
I've known about DaShan since .... 1998, when I saw my first CCTV CNY performance. He is part of the reason I decided to study Chinese at Peking University. Sure, he was always in character when I saw him perform, but I thought it was just cool. Now I realize its not so cool to speak Chinese, but its a useful skill anyways (especially since I'm working here). I saw DaShan one day at a Starbucks in Beijing giving an English interview sometime just before the '08 Olympics. My fanboy side was thinking about asking for an autograph or something, but that would be too much. The guy is really tall in real life, no wonder he was so popular here. (strange enough, I saw Yao Ming once at a starbucks in the states, he is sort of hard to miss; just goes to show that if you stay at Starbucks long enough you'll see more than a few celeberties)
interconnector 14y ago
Great documentary about Dashan by the National Film Board of Canada http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UuubcfCXnU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UuubcfCXnU
pekk 14y ago
He doesn't really address the "dancing monkey" issue at all - just dismisses it. His entire career IS founded on surprising Chinese people that a foreigner can do this or that. The main goals expressed in this answer are to keep pushing up the bar. The success of this IS founded on negative, dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals. This is why it is so funny when he talks like a person in Chinese. Animals can't talk like people! Amazing! Note that nothing like this is even vaguely possible in the US for a Chinese person. It is just a person. Tons of ethnic Chinese have naturalized and been fully American for generations. Most people are used to the idea of ethnic Chinese being American, or a Chinese immigrant naturalizing. It is not socially acceptable to talk about a Chinese person like a funny, ridiculous animal. I guess it is true that it is Western bias to think that Westerners are not funny animals, but so what?
- Jack000 14y ago
  I don't think there is a stereotype of foreigners as being lower class. There is a sort of repressed persecution complex, but "dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals"? No (at least if you're white) DaShan's popularity is enduring - you get over the novelty of his skin color pretty quickly. After that you find he is genuinely funny and skilled at his craft. "Dancing Monkey" suggests that the audience is laughing at him rather than with him, which I do not think is the case.
- gruseom 14y ago
  Nothing like this is even vaguely possible in the US for a Chinese person That is not a fair comparison. You're talking about the US after more than a century of significant Chinese immigration and many generations of Chinese Americans. Needless to say, there was significantly more xenophobia earlier on.
- liulu 14y ago
  >>Animals can't talk like people! Amazing! Whoa that's quite a ridiculous accusation of Chinese being racists, a gross generalization too I only remember Dashan's performance quite vaguely because I was really young when he was still enjoying a lot of media exposure in China (naturally not anymore nowadays), but my family were and perhaps still are quite fond of him and I never feel there's negative side to it I think his popularity in China could very well be attributed to the fact that him being from the (then) economically much superior western countries and so invested in the traditional Chinese culture at the same time. It brought a sense of identification and pride to a lot of Chinese people. Remind you he became famous in 1988, one of the most turbulent years in China's history, and there was a huge debate on whether China should be westernized going on at the same time But "negative, dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals"? That's so 1800s to Chinese
mahmud 14y ago
That guy is huge in China. He is on CCTV stations almost nightly. Has multiple shows. Lectures extensively. He even speaks at very swanky government events, and the big pep-rallies they had before the Olympics.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  That was true 10 years ago, but today? Really, when was the last time you saw DaShan on CCTV? These days, the most favored foreigner is PSY, not DaShan.
  - mahmud 14y ago
    I left China Jan 2008. He was still big then.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      Funny, the last time I saw him on the Wanhui (which I can hardly watch anymore anyways) was about 2008. He's been in the background for a long time now, though I'm sure he's still famous and does well.
kyllo 14y ago
The wording of the title is misleading because he wasn't a comedian in Canada. I wouldn't really consider him a "Canadian comedian" so much as a "Chinese comedian from Canada." The entirety of his career as an entertainer has been in China, in the Mandarin language. His Mandarin is truly beyond native-speaker level. But yes, as a white guy in China it is kind of annoying to have to listen to Chinese people bring up Dashan every time you open your mouth. In China, he is the original token-Mandarin-speaking-white-guy character. And I get the impression that he got there not just by studying Chinese really hard (way before it was cool), but also by agreeing to do whatever he was asked to, and never complaining about it. See, as a non-Asian person in China, strangers will come up and ask to take their photo with you constantly. They will even approach you on the street, at school/work, or even while you're eating dinner in a restaurant, and proposition you with all types of casting calls for bizarre modeling and performance jobs where they just need a white person, any white person. Most of us politely decline--because it's creepy--but he seems like the guy that always said yes and hammed it up for the camera.
- bashou 14y ago
  Where have you gone? I don't think here people treat foreigners as another species.
  - mads 14y ago
    I live in China and I am being treated very well. Obviously I am not Chinese, so people are just curious about who I am and where I come from. The staring is still what annoys me most, but getting used to it - I love when people come up and try to talk to me in broken English and I will answer them in broken Mandarin.. Did have the photo experience two times - oddly enough it was in Hong Kong. I think they must have been Chinese mainlanders on a tourist trip.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - kyllo 14y ago
    I lived in Chengdu, Sichuan from 2004-2005 as an exchange student. Have taken 4-5 trips to various parts of China since then. Foreigners are of course becoming less of a novelty in China than they once were. It's definitely getting better. But seeing a tall white man speaking fluent Mandarin still commonly evokes Dashan comparisons. It isn't really offensive, it just gets mildly annoying by the 1,000th time you hear it. The random casting calls were much more offensive. Not sure if they still do this--in the bigger cities like Shanghai and Beijing they probably don't have to anymore--but when I was in China, the demand for white faces in marketing media greatly outstripped the supply, so it was very common to be approached and begged to participate in some type of photo shoot or stage act for perhaps 1,000 kuai. So, any white guy could feel like Dashan for a day if he were so inclined.

79 points by gruseom 14y ago

The post also links to this brilliant analysis by Rowswell himself of his character, how Westerners perceive him, and how he fits into Chinese culture: http://www.quora.com/Learning-Chinese-1/Why-do-so-many-Chinese-learners-seem-to-hate-Dashan-Mark-Rowswell/answer/Mark-Rowswell http://www.quora.com/Learning-Chinese-1/Why-do-so-many-Chine...

agscala 14y ago
Brilliant is an understatement. I've never seen this level of self-awareness before. Also, I simply can't believe how I've never heard his stage name once, despite how insanely popular he is in China.
- gruseom 14y ago
  Those were my thoughts exactly. I actually wrote him to say that he should expand that piece into a book. It would be unique.
- pekk 14y ago
  I'm afraid you may have misread him, and this is partially a cultural issue. When he seems to be saying something very subtle and gentle, it may be intended as a crushing criticism. And you lose face for not perceiving it.
paulgb 14y ago
Pastebin mirror for non-Quora users: http://pastebin.com/hxvpjabr http://pastebin.com/hxvpjabr
marme 14y ago
Roswell is a very interesting guy. He knows exactly why everyone hates him so much but there is nothing really he can do about it. He enjoys being the "dancing monkey" that all the chinese people knows. He likes what he does and does not care that it bothers others. He does act a bit smug at time and acts like he is gods gift to chinese people which bothers a lot foreigners in china because they all get compared to him. He also loves to chime in when people talk about him on the internet, this quora post is not the first time he has gone on the internet to try to defend himself
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

I've known about DaShan since .... 1998, when I saw my first CCTV CNY performance. He is part of the reason I decided to study Chinese at Peking University. Sure, he was always in character when I saw him perform, but I thought it was just cool. Now I realize its not so cool to speak Chinese, but its a useful skill anyways (especially since I'm working here). I saw DaShan one day at a Starbucks in Beijing giving an English interview sometime just before the '08 Olympics. My fanboy side was thinking about asking for an autograph or something, but that would be too much. The guy is really tall in real life, no wonder he was so popular here. (strange enough, I saw Yao Ming once at a starbucks in the states, he is sort of hard to miss; just goes to show that if you stay at Starbucks long enough you'll see more than a few celeberties)

interconnector 14y ago

Great documentary about Dashan by the National Film Board of Canada http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UuubcfCXnU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UuubcfCXnU

pekk 14y ago

He doesn't really address the "dancing monkey" issue at all - just dismisses it. His entire career IS founded on surprising Chinese people that a foreigner can do this or that. The main goals expressed in this answer are to keep pushing up the bar. The success of this IS founded on negative, dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals. This is why it is so funny when he talks like a person in Chinese. Animals can't talk like people! Amazing! Note that nothing like this is even vaguely possible in the US for a Chinese person. It is just a person. Tons of ethnic Chinese have naturalized and been fully American for generations. Most people are used to the idea of ethnic Chinese being American, or a Chinese immigrant naturalizing. It is not socially acceptable to talk about a Chinese person like a funny, ridiculous animal. I guess it is true that it is Western bias to think that Westerners are not funny animals, but so what?

Jack000 14y ago
I don't think there is a stereotype of foreigners as being lower class. There is a sort of repressed persecution complex, but "dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals"? No (at least if you're white) DaShan's popularity is enduring - you get over the novelty of his skin color pretty quickly. After that you find he is genuinely funny and skilled at his craft. "Dancing Monkey" suggests that the audience is laughing at him rather than with him, which I do not think is the case.
gruseom 14y ago
Nothing like this is even vaguely possible in the US for a Chinese person That is not a fair comparison. You're talking about the US after more than a century of significant Chinese immigration and many generations of Chinese Americans. Needless to say, there was significantly more xenophobia earlier on.
liulu 14y ago
>>Animals can't talk like people! Amazing! Whoa that's quite a ridiculous accusation of Chinese being racists, a gross generalization too I only remember Dashan's performance quite vaguely because I was really young when he was still enjoying a lot of media exposure in China (naturally not anymore nowadays), but my family were and perhaps still are quite fond of him and I never feel there's negative side to it I think his popularity in China could very well be attributed to the fact that him being from the (then) economically much superior western countries and so invested in the traditional Chinese culture at the same time. It brought a sense of identification and pride to a lot of Chinese people. Remind you he became famous in 1988, one of the most turbulent years in China's history, and there was a huge debate on whether China should be westernized going on at the same time But "negative, dismissive stereotypes about foreigners as something like animals"? That's so 1800s to Chinese

mahmud 14y ago

That guy is huge in China. He is on CCTV stations almost nightly. Has multiple shows. Lectures extensively. He even speaks at very swanky government events, and the big pep-rallies they had before the Olympics.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
That was true 10 years ago, but today? Really, when was the last time you saw DaShan on CCTV? These days, the most favored foreigner is PSY, not DaShan.
- mahmud 14y ago
  I left China Jan 2008. He was still big then.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Funny, the last time I saw him on the Wanhui (which I can hardly watch anymore anyways) was about 2008. He's been in the background for a long time now, though I'm sure he's still famous and does well.

kyllo 14y ago

The wording of the title is misleading because he wasn't a comedian in Canada. I wouldn't really consider him a "Canadian comedian" so much as a "Chinese comedian from Canada." The entirety of his career as an entertainer has been in China, in the Mandarin language. His Mandarin is truly beyond native-speaker level. But yes, as a white guy in China it is kind of annoying to have to listen to Chinese people bring up Dashan every time you open your mouth. In China, he is the original token-Mandarin-speaking-white-guy character. And I get the impression that he got there not just by studying Chinese really hard (way before it was cool), but also by agreeing to do whatever he was asked to, and never complaining about it. See, as a non-Asian person in China, strangers will come up and ask to take their photo with you constantly. They will even approach you on the street, at school/work, or even while you're eating dinner in a restaurant, and proposition you with all types of casting calls for bizarre modeling and performance jobs where they just need a white person, any white person. Most of us politely decline--because it's creepy--but he seems like the guy that always said yes and hammed it up for the camera.

bashou 14y ago
Where have you gone? I don't think here people treat foreigners as another species.
- mads 14y ago
  I live in China and I am being treated very well. Obviously I am not Chinese, so people are just curious about who I am and where I come from. The staring is still what annoys me most, but getting used to it - I love when people come up and try to talk to me in broken English and I will answer them in broken Mandarin.. Did have the photo experience two times - oddly enough it was in Hong Kong. I think they must have been Chinese mainlanders on a tourist trip.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- kyllo 14y ago
  I lived in Chengdu, Sichuan from 2004-2005 as an exchange student. Have taken 4-5 trips to various parts of China since then. Foreigners are of course becoming less of a novelty in China than they once were. It's definitely getting better. But seeing a tall white man speaking fluent Mandarin still commonly evokes Dashan comparisons. It isn't really offensive, it just gets mildly annoying by the 1,000th time you hear it. The random casting calls were much more offensive. Not sure if they still do this--in the bigger cities like Shanghai and Beijing they probably don't have to anymore--but when I was in China, the demand for white faces in marketing media greatly outstripped the supply, so it was very common to be approached and begged to participate in some type of photo shoot or stage act for perhaps 1,000 kuai. So, any white guy could feel like Dashan for a day if he were so inclined.