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Did you know that more than 40% of the country DOES NOT pay taxes? Someone should be taxing that 40%...

ryanwaggoner 18y ago
We are...it's called the lottery.
jimbokun 18y ago
The problem is that is the 40% of the country with hardly any money, so there's not much revenue to be gotten from them, anyway. They also still pay a fair amount of more regressive taxes like social security, sales taxes, etc.
- anamax 18y ago
  > They also still pay a fair amount of more regressive taxes like social security Social security for low-income folks isn't so much a tax as a forced savings plan. For low-income folks, the return is pretty good. For higher-income folks, the return is lousy. For the rich, it's simply not a factor. Note that the "regression" comes from capping the amount taxed, but the benefits are capped too. If you uncap the amount taxed and uncap the benefits, Ross Perot will be getting >$100k benefits and the system will have even more economic trouble. If you uncap the amount taxed and keep the benefits cap, it becomes yet another welfare program and folks are going to start caring about the 15%. In the past, SS advocates have argued vehemently against turning it into yet another welfare program and have also opposed uncapped benefits. They argue that both will lead to decreased support for SS. Are they wrong?
gnaritas 18y ago
> Did you know that more than 40% of the country DOES NOT pay taxes? Did you know that everyone who complains about that is ignorant and selfish and should have their taxes doubled for even trying to make the poor poorer? By the way, it's a lie, everyone pays taxes, 40% just don't pay income taxes which is but one of many taxes we're all required to pay. Implying that they don't pay taxes is despicably intellectually dishonest.
- jacoblyles 18y ago
  Note: This was originally a little more harsh. I don't think I am selfish and ignorant for worrying about the incentive effects involved when a majority of the voting public do not pay anything for the programs they vote for. Of course, I am pretty poor right now myself (Grad school), so your suggestion that my taxes should be doubled doesn't really do a lot.
  - gnaritas 18y ago
    > I am worried about the incentive effects involved when a majority of the voting public do not pay anything for the programs they vote for. Don't, the wealthy don't need you to worry about them, they have paid lobbyists to do that for them and they're well taken care of already. You need not fear for the wealthy, they'll be just fine, they always are. > I can't figure out how that is ignorant or selfish. It's ignorant because you're concerned about those who need your concern the least, because they've brainwashed you into it by making you think you'll be one of them one day. It's selfish because you've directed your anger at the poor, those who need help the most, you're complaining about it as if they're the ones who write the rules or control the system; they don't. Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being rich, or wanting to be rich. But it's fucking selfish to point fingers at the poor and say they aren't paying enough. Frankly, you don't know what poor is, you're in Grad school for Christ's sake, that's not poor. Poor is shopping in dumpsters for clothes and food because you have no money and no hope of attaining money. Poor kids don't go to college, many don't finish high school, staying alive is too pressing a concern to be off "wasting time learning" when you're little brother is starving and you could be bouncing store to store buying 1 cent gum with food stamps so you can get 99 cents change to eventually collect up enough to pay the rent so you're not all homeless tomorrow morning. Poor is collecting rain water in a big tub on the back porch so you can take a bath, and then sharing the water with your siblings one after the next because you don't have indoor plumbing and you've never seen a shower. Poor is walking 200 feet in snow to go to the bathroom, again because you don't have indoor plumbing and you built an outhouse near the edge of the woods and the distance in necessary to keep the stink away. This shit happens, here, in America, daily. Poor is an economic status most are born into and never get enough education to realize ways out even exist. You don't fucking know poor, point your accusatory finger elsewhere.
jacoblyles 18y ago
Pretty soon, half of all voters won't be paying a dime to fund the spending programs they vote for. That sounds dangerous. In Singapore, which has a large number of social programs, many programs have a copay to counter the "buffet mentality" that comes from handing out lots of free goods. Consumption is subsidized, but it is not free. I'd like to see us take a similar approach.

We are...it's called the lottery.

The problem is that is the 40% of the country with hardly any money, so there's not much revenue to be gotten from them, anyway. They also still pay a fair amount of more regressive taxes like social security, sales taxes, etc.

anamax 18y ago
> They also still pay a fair amount of more regressive taxes like social security Social security for low-income folks isn't so much a tax as a forced savings plan. For low-income folks, the return is pretty good. For higher-income folks, the return is lousy. For the rich, it's simply not a factor. Note that the "regression" comes from capping the amount taxed, but the benefits are capped too. If you uncap the amount taxed and uncap the benefits, Ross Perot will be getting >$100k benefits and the system will have even more economic trouble. If you uncap the amount taxed and keep the benefits cap, it becomes yet another welfare program and folks are going to start caring about the 15%. In the past, SS advocates have argued vehemently against turning it into yet another welfare program and have also opposed uncapped benefits. They argue that both will lead to decreased support for SS. Are they wrong?

gnaritas 18y ago

> Did you know that more than 40% of the country DOES NOT pay taxes? Did you know that everyone who complains about that is ignorant and selfish and should have their taxes doubled for even trying to make the poor poorer? By the way, it's a lie, everyone pays taxes, 40% just don't pay income taxes which is but one of many taxes we're all required to pay. Implying that they don't pay taxes is despicably intellectually dishonest.

jacoblyles 18y ago
Note: This was originally a little more harsh. I don't think I am selfish and ignorant for worrying about the incentive effects involved when a majority of the voting public do not pay anything for the programs they vote for. Of course, I am pretty poor right now myself (Grad school), so your suggestion that my taxes should be doubled doesn't really do a lot.
- gnaritas 18y ago
  > I am worried about the incentive effects involved when a majority of the voting public do not pay anything for the programs they vote for. Don't, the wealthy don't need you to worry about them, they have paid lobbyists to do that for them and they're well taken care of already. You need not fear for the wealthy, they'll be just fine, they always are. > I can't figure out how that is ignorant or selfish. It's ignorant because you're concerned about those who need your concern the least, because they've brainwashed you into it by making you think you'll be one of them one day. It's selfish because you've directed your anger at the poor, those who need help the most, you're complaining about it as if they're the ones who write the rules or control the system; they don't. Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being rich, or wanting to be rich. But it's fucking selfish to point fingers at the poor and say they aren't paying enough. Frankly, you don't know what poor is, you're in Grad school for Christ's sake, that's not poor. Poor is shopping in dumpsters for clothes and food because you have no money and no hope of attaining money. Poor kids don't go to college, many don't finish high school, staying alive is too pressing a concern to be off "wasting time learning" when you're little brother is starving and you could be bouncing store to store buying 1 cent gum with food stamps so you can get 99 cents change to eventually collect up enough to pay the rent so you're not all homeless tomorrow morning. Poor is collecting rain water in a big tub on the back porch so you can take a bath, and then sharing the water with your siblings one after the next because you don't have indoor plumbing and you've never seen a shower. Poor is walking 200 feet in snow to go to the bathroom, again because you don't have indoor plumbing and you built an outhouse near the edge of the woods and the distance in necessary to keep the stink away. This shit happens, here, in America, daily. Poor is an economic status most are born into and never get enough education to realize ways out even exist. You don't fucking know poor, point your accusatory finger elsewhere.

jacoblyles 18y ago

Pretty soon, half of all voters won't be paying a dime to fund the spending programs they vote for. That sounds dangerous. In Singapore, which has a large number of social programs, many programs have a copay to counter the "buffet mentality" that comes from handing out lots of free goods. Consumption is subsidized, but it is not free. I'd like to see us take a similar approach.