6 ms·

It's interesting that governments are aware of the threat, but they don't take any action against the root cause, which is inappropriate, nonmedical antibiotic

It's interesting that governments are aware of the threat, but they don't take any action against the root cause, which is inappropriate, nonmedical antibiotic uses, particularly with livestock and poultry. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/opinion/antibiotics-in-livestock.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/opinion/antibiotics-in-liv...

Nux 14y ago
Cramming loads of animals together and pumping them with antibiotics is probably widespread farming procedure by now. I would imagine changing this will require some effort. Not to mention this will prolly raise the price of your favourite horse, errm.. beef burger at the local supermarket. :-)
- tomwalker 14y ago
  There are always neigh-sayers (sorry)
  - freyr 14y ago
    One of the best things about HN is the lack of idiotic pun threads. Leave that to reddit.
- TechNewb 14y ago
  We vote with every purchase, we can help by not buying meat that uses antibiotics (natural/organic/etc), and by not taking antibiotics unless the doctor strongly recommends. I tell my doctor straight up that I do not want meds unless necessary for my health and safety. I do not trust the pharmaceutical industry one bit, I personally believe that they create as many problems as they solve.
- evilduck 14y ago
  My understanding is that antibiotic usage in cows is that it significantly increases their growth rate given the livestock feed we use by altering their gut flora to utilize the nutrients better. If MRSA became resistant to whatever antibiotic they use, I don't think it would alter agricultural practice since that's not what they're using it for. I could be wrong since this is way out of my areas of interest, but AFAIK it has nothing to do with fighting off infections.
  - tocomment 14y ago
    Any idea how the antibiotics make them grow faster? You'd think killing gut flora would make them grow more slowly?
    - MacsHeadroom 14y ago
      Cattle don't need flora to digest grains. They never ate grain in their evolutionary past, only grass. Their flora doesn't process it- which is why E. coli takes over. The majority of cattle which end up in a grocer, convenience store, or restaurant spent most of their life completely infested with E. coli. Right up to the point of being thrown into the grinder.
      - wcoenen 14y ago
        E. Coli is commonly found in the intestines of all warm-blooded animals, and it is usually harmless. There are only a few problematic strains.
    - boundlessdreamz 14y ago
      They are raised in unsanitary conditions and antibiotics reduce the infections. Watch the documentary Food Inc. for a good overview of how screwed up the US meat industry is
api 14y ago
Lobbyists.
chez17 14y ago
I don't think people understand how much this matters. If you were an evil genius and wanted to destroy Earth's antibiotics, there would almost be no better way than to mass feed it to animals that can have diseases jump to humans. It's the number one reason I'm vegan. It's even more astonishing that a reputable news organization like the BBC would do a story on it and not mention livestock. It would be like doing a story on global warming and not mentioning carbon emissions.
- tocomment 14y ago
  Apparently this practice was banned back in April of 2012? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/antibiotics-for-livestock-will-require-prescription-fda-says.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/antibiotics-for-livesto...
  - SageRaven 14y ago
    Tell that to my local feed store. I picked up package of Terramycin (Oxytetracycline) powder at one a few months ago.
    - lobster_johnson 14y ago
      If so, shouldn't you be reporting it to the FDA?
      - SageRaven 14y ago
        Why would I want to do that? No need to get a vet involved when you know what you're doing. It's not like I used it as a feed additive for growth stimulation (which is a horrible practice, in my opinion).
        lobster_johnson 14y ago
        Sorry, I thought you just implied your feed store was illegally dispensing antibiotics without prescriptions. Maybe you know what you're doing, but that does not imply that everyone else is.
Alex3917 14y ago
The majority of human use is inappropriate also.
CreRecombinase 14y ago
So I used to believe exactly this until a friend of mine (who happens to be attending the most prestigious veterinary school in the US) linked me to this post: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/01/antibiotics-and-animals-raised-for-food-lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#.UQFSjSc0V8E http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/01/antibiotics-and-animal...
- dangerlibrary 14y ago
  Food Safety News is a rag published by a personal injury law firm (Marler Clark). When foodborne illness outbreaks occur and people get sick, the firm profits. I wouldn't read that article as serious journalism.
  - CreRecombinase 14y ago
    Is there a factual claim made you take issue with? I'm having trouble understanding how the sponsorship of a personal injury law firm discredits what's said in the piece. Are you implying that these lawyers actually believe antibiotic use in livestock to be harmful to humans, but publicly state otherwise to get customers?
amurmann 14y ago
It's not only the use of antibiotics for livestock. In Russian prisons for example TB is a big problem, but there isn't enough money to give every patient the full antibiotic treatment. This results in a patient getting antibiotics for a few days and then the treatment stops before the TB is fully healed. Those are ideal conditions for TB to become resistant against antibiotics. I am sure similar things are happening elsewhere where there is a lack of funding. I am also pretty sure tat so e patients think they are cured and decide to stop treatment premarturly, resulting in the same problem. Link to the Russian prison problem: http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Tuberculosis_in_Russian_Prisons http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Tuberculosis_in_Russ...
MaysonL 14y ago
Norway does: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html And it works. EDIT: Actually, Norway's success in reducing resistant infections is due to their limiting of antibiotics use in humans.
jdietrich 14y ago
You're generalising US practice globally. In the EU, antibiotic use in livestock is strictly regulated. Antibiotics can't be used as a feed additive and can't be used prophylactically. The parliament is currently debating a complete ban on the agricultural use of several "last resort" antibiotics that are important in the treatment of drug-resistant infections. Even China are banning the use of antibiotics as a growth promoter.
Someone 14y ago
As others noted, inappropriate use in humans is at the very least, to blame too. In many countries, antibiotics are sold over the counter and/or given as placebo to patients who visit the doctor with a virus infection. This is a prime example of a tragedy of the commons: you can be as careful as you want in your use of antibiotics, but that will not help much if others are breeding resistant strains. For an example, look at the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphylococcus_aureus#US_and_UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphyloc... or at the data in http://www.sante.public.lu/publications/rester-bonne-sante/medicaments/summary-eu-data-antibiotic-resitance-consumption/summary-eu-data-antibiotic-resitance-consumption.pdf http://www.sante.public.lu/publications/rester-bonne-sante/m... and compare Scandinavia and, to a lesser extent, the Netherlands and Germany with other EU countries.
johnrgrace 14y ago
People who work in the goverment know about the threat but they in of themselves can not solve it. Someone has to formulate a specific policy and then get it through the House/Senate sub-committee if they want funding. In a period where there is a strong tide against all goverment spending and some very anti-science people that are key in the process I'm not hopeful that a solution will come up soon.

Nux 14y ago

Cramming loads of animals together and pumping them with antibiotics is probably widespread farming procedure by now. I would imagine changing this will require some effort. Not to mention this will prolly raise the price of your favourite horse, errm.. beef burger at the local supermarket. :-)

tomwalker 14y ago
There are always neigh-sayers (sorry)
- freyr 14y ago
  One of the best things about HN is the lack of idiotic pun threads. Leave that to reddit.
TechNewb 14y ago
We vote with every purchase, we can help by not buying meat that uses antibiotics (natural/organic/etc), and by not taking antibiotics unless the doctor strongly recommends. I tell my doctor straight up that I do not want meds unless necessary for my health and safety. I do not trust the pharmaceutical industry one bit, I personally believe that they create as many problems as they solve.
evilduck 14y ago
My understanding is that antibiotic usage in cows is that it significantly increases their growth rate given the livestock feed we use by altering their gut flora to utilize the nutrients better. If MRSA became resistant to whatever antibiotic they use, I don't think it would alter agricultural practice since that's not what they're using it for. I could be wrong since this is way out of my areas of interest, but AFAIK it has nothing to do with fighting off infections.
- tocomment 14y ago
  Any idea how the antibiotics make them grow faster? You'd think killing gut flora would make them grow more slowly?
  - MacsHeadroom 14y ago
    Cattle don't need flora to digest grains. They never ate grain in their evolutionary past, only grass. Their flora doesn't process it- which is why E. coli takes over. The majority of cattle which end up in a grocer, convenience store, or restaurant spent most of their life completely infested with E. coli. Right up to the point of being thrown into the grinder.
    - wcoenen 14y ago
      E. Coli is commonly found in the intestines of all warm-blooded animals, and it is usually harmless. There are only a few problematic strains.
  - boundlessdreamz 14y ago
    They are raised in unsanitary conditions and antibiotics reduce the infections. Watch the documentary Food Inc. for a good overview of how screwed up the US meat industry is

api 14y ago

Lobbyists.

chez17 14y ago

I don't think people understand how much this matters. If you were an evil genius and wanted to destroy Earth's antibiotics, there would almost be no better way than to mass feed it to animals that can have diseases jump to humans. It's the number one reason I'm vegan. It's even more astonishing that a reputable news organization like the BBC would do a story on it and not mention livestock. It would be like doing a story on global warming and not mentioning carbon emissions.

tocomment 14y ago
Apparently this practice was banned back in April of 2012? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/antibiotics-for-livestock-will-require-prescription-fda-says.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/antibiotics-for-livesto...
- SageRaven 14y ago
  Tell that to my local feed store. I picked up package of Terramycin (Oxytetracycline) powder at one a few months ago.
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    If so, shouldn't you be reporting it to the FDA?
    - SageRaven 14y ago
      Why would I want to do that? No need to get a vet involved when you know what you're doing. It's not like I used it as a feed additive for growth stimulation (which is a horrible practice, in my opinion).
      - lobster_johnson 14y ago
        Sorry, I thought you just implied your feed store was illegally dispensing antibiotics without prescriptions. Maybe you know what you're doing, but that does not imply that everyone else is.

Alex3917 14y ago

The majority of human use is inappropriate also.

CreRecombinase 14y ago

So I used to believe exactly this until a friend of mine (who happens to be attending the most prestigious veterinary school in the US) linked me to this post: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/01/antibiotics-and-animals-raised-for-food-lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#.UQFSjSc0V8E http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/01/antibiotics-and-animal...

dangerlibrary 14y ago
Food Safety News is a rag published by a personal injury law firm (Marler Clark). When foodborne illness outbreaks occur and people get sick, the firm profits. I wouldn't read that article as serious journalism.
- CreRecombinase 14y ago
  Is there a factual claim made you take issue with? I'm having trouble understanding how the sponsorship of a personal injury law firm discredits what's said in the piece. Are you implying that these lawyers actually believe antibiotic use in livestock to be harmful to humans, but publicly state otherwise to get customers?

amurmann 14y ago

It's not only the use of antibiotics for livestock. In Russian prisons for example TB is a big problem, but there isn't enough money to give every patient the full antibiotic treatment. This results in a patient getting antibiotics for a few days and then the treatment stops before the TB is fully healed. Those are ideal conditions for TB to become resistant against antibiotics. I am sure similar things are happening elsewhere where there is a lack of funding. I am also pretty sure tat so e patients think they are cured and decide to stop treatment premarturly, resulting in the same problem. Link to the Russian prison problem: http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Tuberculosis_in_Russian_Prisons http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Tuberculosis_in_Russ...

MaysonL 14y ago

Norway does: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-6014559.html And it works. EDIT: Actually, Norway's success in reducing resistant infections is due to their limiting of antibiotics use in humans.

jdietrich 14y ago

You're generalising US practice globally. In the EU, antibiotic use in livestock is strictly regulated. Antibiotics can't be used as a feed additive and can't be used prophylactically. The parliament is currently debating a complete ban on the agricultural use of several "last resort" antibiotics that are important in the treatment of drug-resistant infections. Even China are banning the use of antibiotics as a growth promoter.

Someone 14y ago

As others noted, inappropriate use in humans is at the very least, to blame too. In many countries, antibiotics are sold over the counter and/or given as placebo to patients who visit the doctor with a virus infection. This is a prime example of a tragedy of the commons: you can be as careful as you want in your use of antibiotics, but that will not help much if others are breeding resistant strains. For an example, look at the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphylococcus_aureus#US_and_UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methicillin-resistant_Staphyloc... or at the data in http://www.sante.public.lu/publications/rester-bonne-sante/medicaments/summary-eu-data-antibiotic-resitance-consumption/summary-eu-data-antibiotic-resitance-consumption.pdf http://www.sante.public.lu/publications/rester-bonne-sante/m... and compare Scandinavia and, to a lesser extent, the Netherlands and Germany with other EU countries.

johnrgrace 14y ago

People who work in the goverment know about the threat but they in of themselves can not solve it. Someone has to formulate a specific policy and then get it through the House/Senate sub-committee if they want funding. In a period where there is a strong tide against all goverment spending and some very anti-science people that are key in the process I'm not hopeful that a solution will come up soon.