7 ms·

I'm amazed by people's ability to rationalize why it's okay to continue commuting long distances and driving cars in general, despite the toxic smog that gets d

I'm amazed by people's ability to rationalize why it's okay to continue commuting long distances and driving cars in general, despite the toxic smog that gets deadlier every year. Instead of making those hard changes like using public transit or living locally, I guess everyone is waiting for Elon Musk to save the world with his magic-mobiles. Go ahead, downvote me for telling the truth. I got karma to spare.

ars 14y ago
> Instead of making those hard changes like using public transit Actually diesel buses make more soot than cars. For this problem, public transit is not the solution. (Unless you use LNG buses.)
- jonpeda 14y ago
  I like how you immediately contradicted your conclusion with the obvious counterexample.
  - ars 14y ago
    I like to be honest. But LNG buses are just not common enough, they apparently cost more than diesel ones so municipalities don't buy them.
- khuey 14y ago
  On a per-person-moved basis? I'm going to call [citation needed] on that.
- saosebastiao 14y ago
  This hasn't been true for almost a decade now...and even before then, all it took was a few cars (3-4) taken off the road for the bus to come out ahead.
- agscala 14y ago
  What are you talking about? The idea is to reduce the total number of cars by getting everyone using public transit. One bus might make twice as much soot as a car, but the bus can bring a lot more than two cars off the road if people ride the bus.
  - ars 14y ago
    Buses make about 150 to 250 times as much soot. Not twice as much. Old buses granted. Newer ones are much better.
    - saosebastiao 14y ago
      Have you been reading research papers from the 1950's? If you get on any bus anywhere in the US, you are virtually guaranteed that the bus is less than 10 years old. The average replacement time for Municipal buses is 7 years...10 years with complete engine replacement.
      - ars 14y ago
        I was driving behind a bus in the US just last week - every time the bus accelerated a huge cloud of black smoke poured out of it. Yes, new buses are good. But there are still plenty of old ones. (And this one didn't look old.)
        saosebastiao 14y ago
        Ah yes, we should go ahead with a ban on public transportation due to a fucking anecdote. You and my former boss would get along quite well.
        meh01 14y ago
        Welcome to HN. Where we state opinions as fact and anecdotes as truth, usually with some hand wavey out in case we're called on BS. :)
        14y ago
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Beijing is quickly moving to battery-drawn electric buses (not to mention traditional electric trolley buses). LNG is another solution, but for some reason, electric is catching on here (maybe b/c a lack of natural gas when compared to the states?)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
darrenkopp 14y ago
Have you seen the public transportation in Utah? We got a commuter rail train in 2002 for the olympics, which was pretty much limited to a small area in downtown Salt Lake, and then a straight line down through sandy. Then a few years ago we got Front Runner, which is a somewhat fast commuter train between Ogden and salt lake, but which costs somewhere around $250/month last time I checked. Buses are OK, about as good of a system as you would expect buses to be, but if you are looking to go from where I live to salt lake you are probably looking at an hour to an hour and a half, which seems pretty good when you consider that it takes 45 minutes - 60 minutes on Front Runner (30 miles).
- jarek 14y ago
  If you're looking to go to SLC frequently, perhaps living so far away is part of the problem thoughtcriminal is speaking of. Nothing on you personally, this is a society-wide problem.
  - darrenkopp 14y ago
    That's the problem: I don't go to SLC very often. I work in Centerville which is 15 miles away from my house. The inversion does not affect just Salt Lake; it affects the entire Wasatch Front. All the pollution from the entire area just aggregates into a massive inversion.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  I'm pretty amazed someone would claim that Trax is only limited to a small area of downtown Salt Lake.
  - darrenkopp 14y ago
    It is. The only cross line is up 4th South. I mentioned there's a fairly long straight line down through sandy, but stations are more sparse, and misses the majority of salt lake. Aerial Map: https://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110336608201683697048.0004580c7c736d4e55403 https://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0...
cmccabe 14y ago
I'm amazed by people's stupidity in continuing to advocate solutions that just don't work. And hopeful for the future of electric and hybrid cars, which will do a lot to reduce this problem. Although, judging from the comments, it sounds like a pretty large amount of the problem has nothing to do with commuters.
Sanddancer 14y ago
Except the air in most places has been getting cleaner, even with more vehicles on the road. First Stage smog alerts on Los Angeles, for example, used to be something that happened every few days. Now, they happen at most every few years. Yes, there is work to be done, but your mix of ignorance and outright lies doesn't help. At all.

ars 14y ago

> Instead of making those hard changes like using public transit Actually diesel buses make more soot than cars. For this problem, public transit is not the solution. (Unless you use LNG buses.)

jonpeda 14y ago
I like how you immediately contradicted your conclusion with the obvious counterexample.
- ars 14y ago
  I like to be honest. But LNG buses are just not common enough, they apparently cost more than diesel ones so municipalities don't buy them.
khuey 14y ago
On a per-person-moved basis? I'm going to call [citation needed] on that.
saosebastiao 14y ago
This hasn't been true for almost a decade now...and even before then, all it took was a few cars (3-4) taken off the road for the bus to come out ahead.
agscala 14y ago
What are you talking about? The idea is to reduce the total number of cars by getting everyone using public transit. One bus might make twice as much soot as a car, but the bus can bring a lot more than two cars off the road if people ride the bus.
- ars 14y ago
  Buses make about 150 to 250 times as much soot. Not twice as much. Old buses granted. Newer ones are much better.
  - saosebastiao 14y ago
    Have you been reading research papers from the 1950's? If you get on any bus anywhere in the US, you are virtually guaranteed that the bus is less than 10 years old. The average replacement time for Municipal buses is 7 years...10 years with complete engine replacement.
    - ars 14y ago
      I was driving behind a bus in the US just last week - every time the bus accelerated a huge cloud of black smoke poured out of it. Yes, new buses are good. But there are still plenty of old ones. (And this one didn't look old.)
      - saosebastiao 14y ago
        Ah yes, we should go ahead with a ban on public transportation due to a fucking anecdote. You and my former boss would get along quite well.
        meh01 14y ago
        Welcome to HN. Where we state opinions as fact and anecdotes as truth, usually with some hand wavey out in case we're called on BS. :)
        14y ago
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Beijing is quickly moving to battery-drawn electric buses (not to mention traditional electric trolley buses). LNG is another solution, but for some reason, electric is catching on here (maybe b/c a lack of natural gas when compared to the states?)

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

darrenkopp 14y ago

Have you seen the public transportation in Utah? We got a commuter rail train in 2002 for the olympics, which was pretty much limited to a small area in downtown Salt Lake, and then a straight line down through sandy. Then a few years ago we got Front Runner, which is a somewhat fast commuter train between Ogden and salt lake, but which costs somewhere around $250/month last time I checked. Buses are OK, about as good of a system as you would expect buses to be, but if you are looking to go from where I live to salt lake you are probably looking at an hour to an hour and a half, which seems pretty good when you consider that it takes 45 minutes - 60 minutes on Front Runner (30 miles).

jarek 14y ago
If you're looking to go to SLC frequently, perhaps living so far away is part of the problem thoughtcriminal is speaking of. Nothing on you personally, this is a society-wide problem.
- darrenkopp 14y ago
  That's the problem: I don't go to SLC very often. I work in Centerville which is 15 miles away from my house. The inversion does not affect just Salt Lake; it affects the entire Wasatch Front. All the pollution from the entire area just aggregates into a massive inversion.
seanmcdirmid 14y ago
I'm pretty amazed someone would claim that Trax is only limited to a small area of downtown Salt Lake.
- darrenkopp 14y ago
  It is. The only cross line is up 4th South. I mentioned there's a fairly long straight line down through sandy, but stations are more sparse, and misses the majority of salt lake. Aerial Map: https://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110336608201683697048.0004580c7c736d4e55403 https://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0...

cmccabe 14y ago

I'm amazed by people's stupidity in continuing to advocate solutions that just don't work. And hopeful for the future of electric and hybrid cars, which will do a lot to reduce this problem. Although, judging from the comments, it sounds like a pretty large amount of the problem has nothing to do with commuters.

Sanddancer 14y ago

Except the air in most places has been getting cleaner, even with more vehicles on the road. First Stage smog alerts on Los Angeles, for example, used to be something that happened every few days. Now, they happen at most every few years. Yes, there is work to be done, but your mix of ignorance and outright lies doesn't help. At all.