5 ms·

At this point, I blame it on the assumption that Aspergers must run rampant and is severely underdiagnosed in the dev community.

by kyro 14y ago

DanBC 14y ago
I understand your point, but "makes my eyes bleed" is not a typical comment from a neuro-atypical person. The neuro-typical can be assholes too.
- babs474 14y ago
  Neuro-typical people can be assholes, but they tend to understand that they are being an asshole when they act asshole-ish. I think a big problem in the dev community is a lot of asshole behavior out there from people who don't intend to, or even _understand_ that they are being an asshole. Regardless of intent, this asshole behavior has consequences on neuro-typical and atypical people alike. I think nerdy/geeky/dev/asberger/whatever people need to be more mindful of how they interact with people. Unfortunately the recent asberger pride movement doesn't help.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    > Unfortunately the recent asberger pride movement doesn't help. The word is "Asperger's". 'Asperger pride' is an attempt to reduce the hateful ignorant bigotry that the neuro-atypical face every day. The kind of ignorance that leads to early death, reduced job opportunities, reduced educational opportunities etc.
    - babs474 14y ago
      Thanks for the correction, I got lazy there. I think the problem with 'Asperger pride' is it tends to focus on how neuro-typical people have wronged people on the spectrum. A lot of times the painful truth is that person with aspergers is at least partially culpable for the negative outcome of their social interactions. This becomes a major problem when you work in a place where almost everyone is on the autistic spectrum. There are no oppressive neuro-typical people, yet stubborn asshole behavior skyrockets because all the nerds are being dicks to each other.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        I don't know your workmates, but if I had to hazard a guess I would suggest that this is probably more a function of being in a highly male dominated environment rather than your co-workers actually having autistic traits. If somebody is being a dick because they are hunting for a specific reaction from the other person that is not really Asperger behaviour.
- illuminate 14y ago
  "I understand your point, but "makes my eyes bleed" is not a typical comment from a neuro-atypical person." Why not, out of curiosity?
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Over-literal interpretation of analogy and metaphor can be a problem. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Raining-Cats-Dogs-Expressions/dp/1849052832/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359009634&sr=1-1&tag=6519986691-21 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Raining-Cats-Dogs-Expressions/dp...) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asperger-Dictionary-Everyday-Expressions-ebook/dp/B003GALS70/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359009501&sr=8-2&tag=6519986691-21 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asperger-Dictionary-Everyday-Express...)
benatkin 14y ago
I think it's autism that must run rampant and that it's underdiagnosed partly because people have called it Asperger's which doesn't seem as serious. With the new version of the DSM this won't happen as often.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  There is a huge gulf between Asperger's and full blown autism. People with Aspergers are "normal" people in the sense that they are generally capable of looking after themselves, communicating and working normal jobs etc People will full Autism have severely limited communication skills (often no spoken or written language skills at all beyond repeating a handful of phrases) and require a significant amount of assistance in most areas of life. They will often live with full time carers.
  - jacalata 14y ago
    I thought Asperger's was being removed from the new DSM, so it's all autism now?
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Not sure of the new terminology but these are 2 conditions that vary not just quantitatively but qualitatively. The term Autism as it is used today suggests severely delayed language development. This is not a symptom of Asperger's and sufferers of the latter can often develop advanced language skills.
  - mnicole 14y ago
    There are still people that fall under the high-functioning category that have a hard time taking care of themselves and holding down jobs. Just because you check some boxes doesn't mean you check them all, and I'm glad the DSM is removing a term that tries to generalize a subset.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      I agree, but the level of care required for an "aspie" vs that for somebody with severe autism is night and day.
peterarmstrong 14y ago
OK, everyone, enough with this. Really.
peterarmstrong 14y ago
Think about this: this statement, right here, is a completely unfounded (i.e. you have no evidence about any of the 3 people being ASD, and the probability of all of them being ASD is really low even among geeks like us), passive-aggressive (you are attacking people with ASD but making it appear sympathetic), pseudo-intellectual (how much do you really know that you didn't read in superficial internet threads) insult (oh yes it is) toward people with ASD. Ironically, presumably from a neurotypical, who by implication is supposed to be more sensitive than the alternative. Congratulations. You bully in a thread about bullying being bad.
- kyro 14y ago
  I've worked with people with Asperger's and Autism in a clinical setting. I'm not talking out of my ass.
  - peterarmstrong 14y ago
    While you might not be, you're probably the exception. The typical interaction sequence is: 1. Someone is rude on the internet. 2. "Ooh, look, undiagnosed ASD, lol, most software devs are ASD." 3. Self-applause, occasionally followed by discussion about whether Asperger's is different than Autism or whether it's a spectrum disorder, occasionally someone mentions the new version of DSM. (Sometimes this really bothers someone, and then there's the meta-thing where people smirk and say that of course people with ASD don't like reclassification, etc, etc. It's so tiresome.) I think this may well be a worthy successor to Godwin's law.
    - jessedhillon 14y ago
      It's not just rudeness that triggers this response -- it's when someone displays a severe doesn't get it moment. The most significant moment on HN I've had of this is when someone tried to argue that sexism can't exist in tech because there's a Wikipedia page that lists 50 women with significant contributions to the field. That sort of thing makes me wonder, if after 20-40 years of being part of our society, that is your understanding of one of the major grievances held by people out there, then there is a missing connection. You don't have to agree with the sentiment or conclusion, but if you can't even understand the complaint then you are either woefully sheltered or perhaps it's time to consider cognitive deficiencies. And this sort of failure mode happens all the fucking time in this community.

At this point, I blame it on the assumption that Aspergers must run rampant and is severely underdiagnosed in the dev community.

by kyro 14y ago

At this point, I blame it on the assumption that Aspergers must run rampant and is severely underdiagnosed in the dev community.

DanBC 14y ago

I understand your point, but "makes my eyes bleed" is not a typical comment from a neuro-atypical person. The neuro-typical can be assholes too.

babs474 14y ago
Neuro-typical people can be assholes, but they tend to understand that they are being an asshole when they act asshole-ish. I think a big problem in the dev community is a lot of asshole behavior out there from people who don't intend to, or even _understand_ that they are being an asshole. Regardless of intent, this asshole behavior has consequences on neuro-typical and atypical people alike. I think nerdy/geeky/dev/asberger/whatever people need to be more mindful of how they interact with people. Unfortunately the recent asberger pride movement doesn't help.
- DanBC 14y ago
  > Unfortunately the recent asberger pride movement doesn't help. The word is "Asperger's". 'Asperger pride' is an attempt to reduce the hateful ignorant bigotry that the neuro-atypical face every day. The kind of ignorance that leads to early death, reduced job opportunities, reduced educational opportunities etc.
  - babs474 14y ago
    Thanks for the correction, I got lazy there. I think the problem with 'Asperger pride' is it tends to focus on how neuro-typical people have wronged people on the spectrum. A lot of times the painful truth is that person with aspergers is at least partially culpable for the negative outcome of their social interactions. This becomes a major problem when you work in a place where almost everyone is on the autistic spectrum. There are no oppressive neuro-typical people, yet stubborn asshole behavior skyrockets because all the nerds are being dicks to each other.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      I don't know your workmates, but if I had to hazard a guess I would suggest that this is probably more a function of being in a highly male dominated environment rather than your co-workers actually having autistic traits. If somebody is being a dick because they are hunting for a specific reaction from the other person that is not really Asperger behaviour.
illuminate 14y ago
"I understand your point, but "makes my eyes bleed" is not a typical comment from a neuro-atypical person." Why not, out of curiosity?
- DanBC 14y ago
  Over-literal interpretation of analogy and metaphor can be a problem. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Raining-Cats-Dogs-Expressions/dp/1849052832/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359009634&sr=1-1&tag=6519986691-21 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Raining-Cats-Dogs-Expressions/dp...) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asperger-Dictionary-Everyday-Expressions-ebook/dp/B003GALS70/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359009501&sr=8-2&tag=6519986691-21 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asperger-Dictionary-Everyday-Express...)

benatkin 14y ago

I think it's autism that must run rampant and that it's underdiagnosed partly because people have called it Asperger's which doesn't seem as serious. With the new version of the DSM this won't happen as often.

jiggy2011 14y ago
There is a huge gulf between Asperger's and full blown autism. People with Aspergers are "normal" people in the sense that they are generally capable of looking after themselves, communicating and working normal jobs etc People will full Autism have severely limited communication skills (often no spoken or written language skills at all beyond repeating a handful of phrases) and require a significant amount of assistance in most areas of life. They will often live with full time carers.
- jacalata 14y ago
  I thought Asperger's was being removed from the new DSM, so it's all autism now?
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Not sure of the new terminology but these are 2 conditions that vary not just quantitatively but qualitatively. The term Autism as it is used today suggests severely delayed language development. This is not a symptom of Asperger's and sufferers of the latter can often develop advanced language skills.
- mnicole 14y ago
  There are still people that fall under the high-functioning category that have a hard time taking care of themselves and holding down jobs. Just because you check some boxes doesn't mean you check them all, and I'm glad the DSM is removing a term that tries to generalize a subset.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I agree, but the level of care required for an "aspie" vs that for somebody with severe autism is night and day.

peterarmstrong 14y ago

OK, everyone, enough with this. Really.

peterarmstrong 14y ago

Think about this: this statement, right here, is a completely unfounded (i.e. you have no evidence about any of the 3 people being ASD, and the probability of all of them being ASD is really low even among geeks like us), passive-aggressive (you are attacking people with ASD but making it appear sympathetic), pseudo-intellectual (how much do you really know that you didn't read in superficial internet threads) insult (oh yes it is) toward people with ASD. Ironically, presumably from a neurotypical, who by implication is supposed to be more sensitive than the alternative. Congratulations. You bully in a thread about bullying being bad.

kyro 14y ago
I've worked with people with Asperger's and Autism in a clinical setting. I'm not talking out of my ass.
- peterarmstrong 14y ago
  While you might not be, you're probably the exception. The typical interaction sequence is: 1. Someone is rude on the internet. 2. "Ooh, look, undiagnosed ASD, lol, most software devs are ASD." 3. Self-applause, occasionally followed by discussion about whether Asperger's is different than Autism or whether it's a spectrum disorder, occasionally someone mentions the new version of DSM. (Sometimes this really bothers someone, and then there's the meta-thing where people smirk and say that of course people with ASD don't like reclassification, etc, etc. It's so tiresome.) I think this may well be a worthy successor to Godwin's law.
  - jessedhillon 14y ago
    It's not just rudeness that triggers this response -- it's when someone displays a severe doesn't get it moment. The most significant moment on HN I've had of this is when someone tried to argue that sexism can't exist in tech because there's a Wikipedia page that lists 50 women with significant contributions to the field. That sort of thing makes me wonder, if after 20-40 years of being part of our society, that is your understanding of one of the major grievances held by people out there, then there is a missing connection. You don't have to agree with the sentiment or conclusion, but if you can't even understand the complaint then you are either woefully sheltered or perhaps it's time to consider cognitive deficiencies. And this sort of failure mode happens all the fucking time in this community.