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As others are saying in this thread, I find myself disagreeing with almost every point the author makes about doing a PhD. I'm just about to hand in my thesis a

by jpallen 14y ago

As others are saying in this thread, I find myself disagreeing with almost every point the author makes about doing a PhD. I'm just about to hand in my thesis after 3 and half years of doing a PhD in theoretical physics in the UK. I've published 2 papers and have a third in preparation so I feel like my PhD has been 'good'. In contrast to the author, I've worked on my PhD no more than 40 hours a week, often less since I've also spent a lot of time building up a website and a business that I hope to pursue full-time afterwards. I also haven't been 'broken' in anyway - sure it was tough at times, but I'm leaving my PhD feeling more intelligent and more energised that I ever did. The experience of pushing myself into the unknown and having to learn a lot in a short time has been very beneficial, and I now feel like there is little knowledge that I couldn't master given the time. So all in all, a very positive experience. Sure my research isn't particularly groundbreaking, but the personal development that has come with my PhD has been huge.

pmb 14y ago
The UK system is reputed to be far less abusive than the US system. The US system put me through the frigging wringer.
- snogglethorpe 14y ago
  Take this with an enormous grain of salt, but some vague memories from conversations with UK grad students (I worked in a UK university for a few years a while back): (1) UK undergrad programs are a lot more focused, so students tend to be a lot further along before they start a PhD program. (2) UK PhD students are funded for a fixed time 3(?) years, and then you're supposed to be done. That doesn't always happen, of course—I knew students who went on the dole to continue once their funding ended—but the system is focused on getting them out in that period. In the U.S., on the other hand, there seems to be a lot more variability; we've all heard the stories about CS grad students that take 10 years to get their degree...
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    > UK undergrad programs are a lot more focused, so students tend to be a lot further along before they start a PhD program. It depends. Definitely doing a theory-based PhD can benefit from a European (not just UK) undergrad education, but in systems or implementation, American undergrads actually have an edge (everything else being equal, which is never true). > PhD students are funded for a fixed time 3(?) years, and then you're supposed to be done. Truth. I didn't know anyone to get out in 5 or 6 years, let alone three (in the American system).
    - Sulfolobus 14y ago
      My other observation with the same corollaries is that UK students tend to be better at getting on with things as GENERALLY they have been given more independence and have been treated more as adults during their undergrads. US university can feel a bit like high school++ at times (e.g. compulsory gen ed, I've even seen classes take attendance, constant exams with an average grade instead of a few big end of degree exams, homework, etc.).
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        I went to UW, one of the toughest public universities in the states. Depending on the class, our grades were almost exclusively determined by finals, but some classes (like physics) had mandatory labs and homework, which you did but they didn't help you very much (they could definitely hurt you) since the classes were heavily curved anyways (i.e. dog eat dog). Physics was also a big weed out class for engineering like Chemistry was for pre-med; 30+% of the class was expected to fail, and many more probably actually failed! I actually found in-major comp sci courses to be EASIER than the pelim courses I took before I got into the department. To be honest, I've heard that UK universities were easy, even Cambridge/Oxford, compared to some of the tougher US universities. But I really have no clue!
    - rmk2 14y ago
      That is because American PhD and English PhD are fundamentally different. English PhD programmes usually have no curriculum (or only coursed to bring everyone up to the same level coming from their previous degrees during 4-year courses that are highly interdisciplinary). In the sciences, people either do 4 year undergrad degrees followed by 4 year (usually funded) PhDs, or they do 3/2/3 years (undergrad/Masters/PhD). In the social sciences and humanities, 3/2/3 or 3/1/3 or 4/1/3 are normal, going from undergrad directly into PhD is higly unusual in these. The US 5/6 years usually include a Masters degree, as far as I know, which is usually not the case in the UK.
- jpallen 14y ago
  I don't have any experience with the US system, but I've heard similar things. In fact, when I started reading this article I assume the author was talking about the US system, so I was quite surprised to see it was in the UK system that she was referring too!

by jpallen 14y ago

pmb 14y ago

The UK system is reputed to be far less abusive than the US system. The US system put me through the frigging wringer.

snogglethorpe 14y ago
Take this with an enormous grain of salt, but some vague memories from conversations with UK grad students (I worked in a UK university for a few years a while back): (1) UK undergrad programs are a lot more focused, so students tend to be a lot further along before they start a PhD program. (2) UK PhD students are funded for a fixed time 3(?) years, and then you're supposed to be done. That doesn't always happen, of course—I knew students who went on the dole to continue once their funding ended—but the system is focused on getting them out in that period. In the U.S., on the other hand, there seems to be a lot more variability; we've all heard the stories about CS grad students that take 10 years to get their degree...
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  > UK undergrad programs are a lot more focused, so students tend to be a lot further along before they start a PhD program. It depends. Definitely doing a theory-based PhD can benefit from a European (not just UK) undergrad education, but in systems or implementation, American undergrads actually have an edge (everything else being equal, which is never true). > PhD students are funded for a fixed time 3(?) years, and then you're supposed to be done. Truth. I didn't know anyone to get out in 5 or 6 years, let alone three (in the American system).
  - Sulfolobus 14y ago
    My other observation with the same corollaries is that UK students tend to be better at getting on with things as GENERALLY they have been given more independence and have been treated more as adults during their undergrads. US university can feel a bit like high school++ at times (e.g. compulsory gen ed, I've even seen classes take attendance, constant exams with an average grade instead of a few big end of degree exams, homework, etc.).
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      I went to UW, one of the toughest public universities in the states. Depending on the class, our grades were almost exclusively determined by finals, but some classes (like physics) had mandatory labs and homework, which you did but they didn't help you very much (they could definitely hurt you) since the classes were heavily curved anyways (i.e. dog eat dog). Physics was also a big weed out class for engineering like Chemistry was for pre-med; 30+% of the class was expected to fail, and many more probably actually failed! I actually found in-major comp sci courses to be EASIER than the pelim courses I took before I got into the department. To be honest, I've heard that UK universities were easy, even Cambridge/Oxford, compared to some of the tougher US universities. But I really have no clue!
  - rmk2 14y ago
    That is because American PhD and English PhD are fundamentally different. English PhD programmes usually have no curriculum (or only coursed to bring everyone up to the same level coming from their previous degrees during 4-year courses that are highly interdisciplinary). In the sciences, people either do 4 year undergrad degrees followed by 4 year (usually funded) PhDs, or they do 3/2/3 years (undergrad/Masters/PhD). In the social sciences and humanities, 3/2/3 or 3/1/3 or 4/1/3 are normal, going from undergrad directly into PhD is higly unusual in these. The US 5/6 years usually include a Masters degree, as far as I know, which is usually not the case in the UK.
jpallen 14y ago
I don't have any experience with the US system, but I've heard similar things. In fact, when I started reading this article I assume the author was talking about the US system, so I was quite surprised to see it was in the UK system that she was referring too!