5 ms·

Java isn't what it used to be. The products written in Java are slow, bad looking and less secure. The days of Java are anyways numbered.

sc0rb 14y ago
That's an incredibly ignorant response and you have no idea what you're talking about. Java looks bad? You're probably talking about certain swing applications which are now very rare on the desktop. Java is slow? You clearly have no idea how fast the JVM can interpret and JIT java nowadays. Java is insecure? You're mainly talking about applets which are an ancient technology on their way out (slowly). In terms of actual JVM security. Every product has its security issues. You seem very ignorant, your java experience is probably from the past e.g. J2EE1.4 and old swing apps. Modern Java is an good language on a great platform. There's a reason why it runs some of the worlds biggest ecommerce sites and worlds fastest trading desks.
- jbm 14y ago
  While I think the parent was overplaying it, I do find most of the Java applications on my mac are slow and irritating to run. Pycharm is an example of one of the apps I am talking about. It just feels like it struggles at times, eventhough I have a fairly new machine. Java was the first language I learned while going through college but I find the verbosity to be irritating.
  - sc0rb 14y ago
    Your experience is not necessarily because Java is slow. It could just be the applications you are running that are slow for reason that have nothing to do with the language. Swing is probably going to be slower (maybe?) than some native windowing framework. But Java as a language running on the JVM is certainly not slow. I've just been looking up pycharm and it seems that the slowness issues are to do with things like opening files and doing parsing. These things are likely to be slow for anything but the language they are written in.
  - matwood 14y ago
    Desktop java is dead. Actually desktop anything that's not web is going to end up dying. The server is where the languages will duke it out next and Java is fine there. C# is also fine on the server. The nice thing about Java is it easily runs on linux and has many OSS libraries to help quickly standup server applications.
    - revscat 14y ago
      The best way I can think to phrase it is "in-browser VMs are dead". This covers Java, Flash, that one Microsoft had for a while, and anything else that uses the browser plug-in mechanism to load heavy frameworks.
- Spooky23 14y ago
  Most people are exposed to Java via enterprise monstrosities. It depends on your POV. I've had to deal with an enterprise Java crapware app that was essentially a terminal emulator for an old mainframe... except that it required more than 4GB of memory on the desktop to work appropriately. The mainframe itself has 2GB of RAM.
revscat 14y ago
I hate to say it, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
brown9-2 14y ago
Most applications written in Java these days don't have UIs.
lawnchair_larry 14y ago
Although you are taking heat for saying they are less secure, this is mostly true. Specifically, it is the JVM that has major security problems, not the apps themselves. This is not so much a fault in Java but in Oracle's implementation and their longstanding failure with security. Fun fact, several Windows versions have included a security mitigation technology called ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization) that breaks a large majority of exploits and raises the bar significantly. Exploit developers and penetration testers love Java, because any machine that has it installed (most of them) breaks ASLR, re-enabling all of those exploits that Microsoft had otherwise mitigated.
slurry 14y ago
> Java isn't what it used to be. The products written in Java are slow, bad looking and less secure. The days of Java are anyways numbered. Shorter: "I only know anything about client-side programming."

sc0rb 14y ago

That's an incredibly ignorant response and you have no idea what you're talking about. Java looks bad? You're probably talking about certain swing applications which are now very rare on the desktop. Java is slow? You clearly have no idea how fast the JVM can interpret and JIT java nowadays. Java is insecure? You're mainly talking about applets which are an ancient technology on their way out (slowly). In terms of actual JVM security. Every product has its security issues. You seem very ignorant, your java experience is probably from the past e.g. J2EE1.4 and old swing apps. Modern Java is an good language on a great platform. There's a reason why it runs some of the worlds biggest ecommerce sites and worlds fastest trading desks.

jbm 14y ago
While I think the parent was overplaying it, I do find most of the Java applications on my mac are slow and irritating to run. Pycharm is an example of one of the apps I am talking about. It just feels like it struggles at times, eventhough I have a fairly new machine. Java was the first language I learned while going through college but I find the verbosity to be irritating.
- sc0rb 14y ago
  Your experience is not necessarily because Java is slow. It could just be the applications you are running that are slow for reason that have nothing to do with the language. Swing is probably going to be slower (maybe?) than some native windowing framework. But Java as a language running on the JVM is certainly not slow. I've just been looking up pycharm and it seems that the slowness issues are to do with things like opening files and doing parsing. These things are likely to be slow for anything but the language they are written in.
- matwood 14y ago
  Desktop java is dead. Actually desktop anything that's not web is going to end up dying. The server is where the languages will duke it out next and Java is fine there. C# is also fine on the server. The nice thing about Java is it easily runs on linux and has many OSS libraries to help quickly standup server applications.
  - revscat 14y ago
    The best way I can think to phrase it is "in-browser VMs are dead". This covers Java, Flash, that one Microsoft had for a while, and anything else that uses the browser plug-in mechanism to load heavy frameworks.
Spooky23 14y ago
Most people are exposed to Java via enterprise monstrosities. It depends on your POV. I've had to deal with an enterprise Java crapware app that was essentially a terminal emulator for an old mainframe... except that it required more than 4GB of memory on the desktop to work appropriately. The mainframe itself has 2GB of RAM.

revscat 14y ago

I hate to say it, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

brown9-2 14y ago

Most applications written in Java these days don't have UIs.

lawnchair_larry 14y ago

Although you are taking heat for saying they are less secure, this is mostly true. Specifically, it is the JVM that has major security problems, not the apps themselves. This is not so much a fault in Java but in Oracle's implementation and their longstanding failure with security. Fun fact, several Windows versions have included a security mitigation technology called ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization) that breaks a large majority of exploits and raises the bar significantly. Exploit developers and penetration testers love Java, because any machine that has it installed (most of them) breaks ASLR, re-enabling all of those exploits that Microsoft had otherwise mitigated.

slurry 14y ago

> Java isn't what it used to be. The products written in Java are slow, bad looking and less secure. The days of Java are anyways numbered. Shorter: "I only know anything about client-side programming."