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So the conciser version is the program manager is someone who understands software design, usability issues and can communicate with every role in the company?

jonmc12 18y ago
Yes, and the correcter version of your comment is 'So the more concise version...' ;)
raganwald 18y ago
You must have been daydreaming about Sally in 11th grade. You forgot that The program manager and the developers have to be peers. I had this experience at KL Group with the marketing department, who owned the requirements and the UI. Marketing and development were peers, which reflected the company's structure: Greg Kiessling and Ed Lyclama (K & L) were co-owners. Greg ran the business while Ed ran the technology. Steve Rosenberg, the VP of Development, used to echo another of Joel's sentiments: Whenever we were depressed, he would remind us that We own the compiler, meaning that nothing could happen with convincing, cajoling, or otherwise making Development a deal they couldn't refuse. Marketing and Development fought like wild dogs over the specs and shipping priorities, and we ended up taking over our market and making Ed and Greg wealthy men when they sold out. A while later I worked for another company where marketing owned the requirements and UI, and the VP of Marketing executed a coup and got Development to report to him. The company failed shortly thereafter.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  Yea, Sally. I wonder whatever happened to her.
run4yourlives 18y ago
Yes, in other words, the proper definition of a "really good programmer". (As opposed to the flawed one Joel - and many others - use)
- jwilliams 18y ago
  For me -- Seems to also fit the (albeit rarely found) definition of a "good architect" also.
  - run4yourlives 18y ago
    I'll give you that. I've never seen a "good architect" that wasn't also a "good programmer" via my definition.
    - jwilliams 18y ago
      Indeed - For whatever reason, I've had the title architect for most of my career, so I hope that's true (as for the "good" part...).
pkaler 18y ago
The Program Manager also understands the timeline/schedule and improves the code without actually coding.

jonmc12 18y ago

Yes, and the correcter version of your comment is 'So the more concise version...' ;)

raganwald 18y ago

You must have been daydreaming about Sally in 11th grade. You forgot that The program manager and the developers have to be peers. I had this experience at KL Group with the marketing department, who owned the requirements and the UI. Marketing and development were peers, which reflected the company's structure: Greg Kiessling and Ed Lyclama (K & L) were co-owners. Greg ran the business while Ed ran the technology. Steve Rosenberg, the VP of Development, used to echo another of Joel's sentiments: Whenever we were depressed, he would remind us that We own the compiler, meaning that nothing could happen with convincing, cajoling, or otherwise making Development a deal they couldn't refuse. Marketing and Development fought like wild dogs over the specs and shipping priorities, and we ended up taking over our market and making Ed and Greg wealthy men when they sold out. A while later I worked for another company where marketing owned the requirements and UI, and the VP of Marketing executed a coup and got Development to report to him. The company failed shortly thereafter.

jimbokun 18y ago
Yea, Sally. I wonder whatever happened to her.

run4yourlives 18y ago

Yes, in other words, the proper definition of a "really good programmer". (As opposed to the flawed one Joel - and many others - use)

jwilliams 18y ago
For me -- Seems to also fit the (albeit rarely found) definition of a "good architect" also.
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  I'll give you that. I've never seen a "good architect" that wasn't also a "good programmer" via my definition.
  - jwilliams 18y ago
    Indeed - For whatever reason, I've had the title architect for most of my career, so I hope that's true (as for the "good" part...).

pkaler 18y ago

The Program Manager also understands the timeline/schedule and improves the code without actually coding.