9 ms·

We expect too much of geeks

187 points by benatkin 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- Anechoic 14y ago
  Just go to http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/ if the threads2.scripting.com subdomain isn't working.
  - auggierose 14y ago
    Thanks, that works.
  - mjbellantoni 14y ago
    That works today, but won't work tomorrow (or next week) when there's another article at the top of his blog. Anyway, he seems to have fixed whatever was wrong.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
Anechoic 14y ago
The title references "geeks" while the actual post references "programmers" - I wish he had stuck with "geeks" as the challenges he describes are limited just to programmer or tech types, but are faced by folks in a number of scientific and engineering professions. Just think of what the EE's who worked on the Boeing 787 are going through right now.
- neltnerb 14y ago
  I'm not a programmer, but it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise. It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though. I like the comments about how to avoid being depressed and anxious about not being perfect. No one likes admitting they're fallible initially... it takes practice =) And I've had lots and lots of practice. In grad school it sounds like it is not unlike his description of silicon valley (minus the piles of cash, dominance of Caucasians, and lack of women, of course). If you're confident, aggressive, and think you're good at what you're doing, you will probably end up being so eventually. At least if you are able to take your own fallibility in stride. I remember trying to explain things to younger students (and often postdocs too) and asking often "does that make sense?" and "do you know what I mean by ..." and getting rapid nods. I wasn't asking because I'm trying to make them look stupid, I'm asking because the subject material is legitimately really hard, and no one knows all of it offhand. No one. And then this is followed up a week later by them clearly obviously definitively not having understood a word I said. Whereas if they had admitted to not knowing what I was talking about, I would have stepped back a bit further and explained it from an earlier stage with no problem. One of my biggest domain examples of my own was when I was like "oh, the melting point of copper is really high, surely it will work okay as a conductor at 500C". Do'h. Man that was stupid. On the plus side, now I know all about oxidative corrosion...
  - Anechoic 14y ago
    it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise Right, I get that. But... It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though That's what I was commenting on - the way DW connected the initial thesis to the commentary made it seem (to me anyway) that these expectations were exclusive to programmers.
kunai 14y ago
Hmm. Perhaps if we expected more, then geeks wouldn't post up broken links for fear of under-delivering. Just go to http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/ if you want to see the article.
gregd 14y ago
I expected the URL to work...so therefore, I must be one of the ones that expect too much from geeks.
mjbellantoni 14y ago
This link works for me: 2jg.r2.ly (this is DW's link shortener.)
auggierose 14y ago
So the article says in Silicon Valley you can go far if you are male and young. I am male, but not as young as 15 years ago. Guess I have to make it outside of Silicon Valley ...
- swombat 14y ago
  Don't worry, outside is a lot bigger. :-)
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  I didn't get to experience it in that way, but I wonder how much of the advantage of being young is legit. It is easiest to get jobs when you're 22, but it's hard to get good jobs and most of your attractiveness seems to be that it's much easier to take advantage of you.
davewiner 14y ago
Sorry the server is getting swamped. Right now the best place to read this piece is http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/. Update: Traffic seems to have abated a bit. Not going to move it.
10dpd 14y ago
The problem is that the level of abstraction in modern languages means that the bar to becoming a programmer today is a lot lower than it was say in the 70s. Can you imagine explaining to a programmer in the 70s that they'd be able to determine someones precise location, place that location on an interactive map, and share it with all their friends, all from a tiny device that they keep in their pocket thats programmed using a simple, high-level API? As a result, yes society does expect a lot from programmers, and rightly so.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- davewiner 14y ago
  The languages haven't changed much, but the price of computers has gone down. In the 80s there were much simpler development environments than we have now. Turbo Pascal and Think C were the two I used. It would be great to combine that level of ease of use and the browser or server-side programming environment. But no one has gotten there yet. As far as envisioning today's world of computing in the 70s, I was a programmer in the 70s and we envisioned this and a lot more. Read Ted Nelson's book Dream Machines for an idea.
  - Vivtek 14y ago
    Yeah, any reader of Omni was right on board - I know I was. My mom worked at the post office (rural carrier) and I blew her mind telling her that email would largely supplant postal mail. She just reminded me of that last year, actually. We all knew it was coming. Also - yeah. I kind of miss Turbo Pascal. But I'd never give up CPAN for it. Ha.
- Swizec 14y ago
  Surely you're joking. In the 70's everyone thought computers understanding human speech and talking back in a natural language was just around the corner. We still haven't gotten there. Similar for general AI.
- dakimov 14y ago
mimog 14y ago
Strange article. I don't think its an innate geek property to feel almighty and infallible. The author seems to be conufsing geek with silicon valley megalomaniac/serial entrepremanur.
- benatkin 14y ago
  Well as Anechoic said, in the post he keeps referencing programmers. This may refer more closely to the silicon valley types. But I know there are many outside silicon valley, and many within silicon valley who don't call themselves entrepreneurs but have an entrepreneurial mindset. I think if you look at the content and context of the article you can get a pretty good idea of what he means by "geek".
swombat 14y ago
When young people risk it all, it would be nice if there were people who understood what they're going through, who could offer some perspective. Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs, and you're going to be around for a long time, and this is just the beginning, part of the learning process, and while it looks like everything is great now, or falling apart, or whatever emotion is driving you at this moment, let's go for a walk, get a burger, see a movie and hang out for a bit, watch a game, and notice all the other stuff that's going on. This seems appropriate: http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm
- benatkin 14y ago
  Wonderful poem, and I like how it's presented. The public domain and the inexpensiveness in hosting allows for this.
rodh 14y ago
This article hits a nerve for me. There's in particular a sentence right at the start. "If you're young and think you're hot shit, and there's some reason to believe you are, you can go far, very quickly." When I think back at my time prior to going to University, I really did think this way. And I had reason to. Even during my time at University, that feeling never escaped me. Once I entered full-time employment (almost by accident. I had started my own limited company at this point), my attitude changed completely. I was surrounded by so many people so unbelievably more clever than me, I was humbled. It wasn't just their abilities, but their "maturity". Now I cringe to think of my attitude as little as 5 years ago. And I think I have reason to. Where I used to take pride in "fixing your 6-month problem in 4 days", I now realise I failed on a lot of aspects. I am now much more focused on doing things right. I focus on listening and understanding, on being tolerant and empathetic. I measure my work in quality, maintainability, measurable evidence. Every day I try my hardest to learn and to be a pioneer. I do think this is a positive improvement. But when I come across an article like this one, and recall my youthful naivety and enthusiasm, I do worry if I haven't perhaps lost something more important.
- ramblerman 14y ago
  Reminds me of this bit from "Zen and the art of archery" ---- Among swordmasters, on the basis of their own and their pupils' experience, it is taken as proved that the beginner, however strong and pugnacious he is, and however courageous and fearless he may be at the outset, loses not only his lack of self consciousness, but his self confidence, as soon as he starts taking lessons. He gets to know all the technical possibilities by which his life may be endangered in combat, and although he soon becomes capable of straining his attention to the utmost, of keeping a sharp watch on his opponent, Of parrying his thrusts correctly and making effective lunges, he is really worse off than before, when, half in jest and half in earnest, he struck about him at random under the inspiration of the moment and as the joy of battle suggested. He is now forced to admit that he is at the mercy of everyone who is stronger, more nimble and more practised than he.
  - bluedanieru 14y ago
    On a related note, the more I would play Smash Brothers, the worse off I would be against people who had never played before and just picked up the controller and smashed buttons.
nerdfiles 14y ago
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're overriding my dyslexic fonts with your inappropriate inline style just like how most developers (Facebook, Reddit, and a whole laundry list of others) fail to observe relative font-sizes or the good-sense settings of the browser[1] . Now what am I supposed to do? I'm ALREADY using Stylish WITH "!important"; just imagine how systematic this problem is[2]. And yet the only response I typically get whenever I bring up this issue is that some know-it-all thinks I don't know how to customize my browser or whatever else. Or snide comments that such-and-such dyslexic font is "shit" or "ugly." Then I lose all of my street cred when I'm the one being mindful of accessibility (even if it is at the cost of garden variety aesthetic choices in the world of Helvetinauts). Please, red flag me for irrelevance; I've taken this kind of flack before[3]. But I am getting absolutely sick of this. Stop overriding good design choices with bad ones. _Why_ are you using inline styles? I'm going to keep shouting this until I get acknowledgment: no more fontwalls[4]! I was in reading mode, and your poor development practices just ruined that. Now I need a bloody cigarette. [1]: http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size [2]: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/the-reality-of-dyslexia-millions-struggle.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/the-reality-of-dys... [3]: http://www.reddit.com/r/css/comments/15q12g/youre_about_to_start_a_bloody_war_the_open/ http://www.reddit.com/r/css/comments/15q12g/youre_about_to_s... [4]: http://webjournal.nerdfiles.net/no-more-fontwalls/ http://webjournal.nerdfiles.net/no-more-fontwalls/
- crazygringo 14y ago
  Wait, since when are inline styles a poor development practice? Obviously they're a bad choice for large sites, but for a simple webpage (like a blog) that never needs to be extended and doesn't have repeating elements with lots of formatting, it seems to be a justifiable choice. For blog post content, especially. Is "!important" in your custom stylesheet not overriding it? It's supposed to, what is the technical problem? Also, what are fontwalls? You link to a paragraph with a typeface that is exceedingly difficult to read (is that the point?), and then the rest appears to be in hieroglyphics.
  - nerdfiles 14y ago
tsahyt 14y ago
This was a very good article to read. Very thoughtful. It does somewhat hit a nerve for me too. Ever since I started digging deeper into the complexity of computing I've felt a bit dumber every time I learned something new. It's just staggering how complex those things are. It somehow makes me, my knowledge, feel insignificant. I know my way around software design. I can definitely write some good code. I know some of the theoretical aspects of computer science. In theory, I should have a grasp of all this and I probably do. Somehow though, I feel as if there was just so much more to know that declaring myself as "good" at this feels wrong. I've come to terms, that the Dunning-Kruger effect is a powerful force. The more I learn, the more I realize how much there's left to learn.
btilly 14y ago
I can't read this without wondering to what extent it is a response to the death of Aaron Swartz. Particularly considering that Aaron's suicide brought http://scripting.com/2003/06/29.html#When:9:33:43PM http://scripting.com/2003/06/29.html#When:9:33:43PM back to the attention of a number of people. In case you entirely missed this subtext, I recommend re-reading it, and seeing how well the glove fits on a possible perspective of Aaron's life.
- charlieok 14y ago
  ...and things started off so well between them http://scripting.com/2001/02/19.html http://scripting.com/2001/02/19.html
jhuni 14y ago
> The other thing we all can do, if we love the product of technical minds, is stop thinking it's magic. There is magic in computers, but the magic isn't in the programmer or the tech writer or the visionary -- it's in the whole thing. The miracle isn't any one person, rather it's that humanity can collaborate to create something much greater than any one of us. If you consider the "whole thing" most computers still have proprietary programs put in place by profit-driven organizations to subjugate and control the users. That isn't magic its witchcraft. It would be a miracle if computer programs and all other forms of software were developed collaboratively rather then secretively.
dakimov 14y ago
When I was a Junior Developer I though I was a genius and knew everything about programming itself, I was not even interested in improving my coding skills, because I thought they were perfect, now after 8+ years I view myself as a rather ignorant guy who can barely create working programs.
joshuacc 14y ago
"Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs" I know that it's pretty fashionable to hate on religion, but this is something that religious wisdom literature and religious communities are often very good at providing.
ww520 14y ago
Funny thing. These days when I made a mistake, I kicked myself on my proverbial butt and said, "damn, that's stupid ROOKIE mistake. How could you miss that?"
hakaaaaak 14y ago
Here's my thing: I've never been hot shit. The closest was the 90s when everyone who knew anything about programming or networking was the bomb, maybe followed by working at a startup for the first time and really digging it and feeling like I was the man because they ran on code I wrote. Since then, I've gotten older. And increasingly more depressed about my job. I've changed workplaces and it doesn't help, if anything- it just changed the nature of it all. After burning out working crazy hours at startup company #2, I took a job that was way too easy. Fell into the trap and now I'm older, my mind doesn't work, and I'm back at a startup in higher stress. I've not learned much really except that I don't like it.
marshray 14y ago
Writing computer programs is hard. Doing it for long hours, day in day out, is unnatural. Nevertheless, 'Software Engineer' is nearly always at near the top of those "best" careers listings. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but don't expect non-programmer family and friends to understand. It's important to recognize the signs of burnout and acknowledge it before you get to the point where you never want to touch a computer again.

187 points by benatkin 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Anechoic 14y ago
Just go to http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/ if the threads2.scripting.com subdomain isn't working.
- auggierose 14y ago
  Thanks, that works.
- mjbellantoni 14y ago
  That works today, but won't work tomorrow (or next week) when there's another article at the top of his blog. Anyway, he seems to have fixed whatever was wrong.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

Anechoic 14y ago

The title references "geeks" while the actual post references "programmers" - I wish he had stuck with "geeks" as the challenges he describes are limited just to programmer or tech types, but are faced by folks in a number of scientific and engineering professions. Just think of what the EE's who worked on the Boeing 787 are going through right now.

neltnerb 14y ago
I'm not a programmer, but it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise. It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though. I like the comments about how to avoid being depressed and anxious about not being perfect. No one likes admitting they're fallible initially... it takes practice =) And I've had lots and lots of practice. In grad school it sounds like it is not unlike his description of silicon valley (minus the piles of cash, dominance of Caucasians, and lack of women, of course). If you're confident, aggressive, and think you're good at what you're doing, you will probably end up being so eventually. At least if you are able to take your own fallibility in stride. I remember trying to explain things to younger students (and often postdocs too) and asking often "does that make sense?" and "do you know what I mean by ..." and getting rapid nods. I wasn't asking because I'm trying to make them look stupid, I'm asking because the subject material is legitimately really hard, and no one knows all of it offhand. No one. And then this is followed up a week later by them clearly obviously definitively not having understood a word I said. Whereas if they had admitted to not knowing what I was talking about, I would have stepped back a bit further and explained it from an earlier stage with no problem. One of my biggest domain examples of my own was when I was like "oh, the melting point of copper is really high, surely it will work okay as a conductor at 500C". Do'h. Man that was stupid. On the plus side, now I know all about oxidative corrosion...
- Anechoic 14y ago
  it's a little silly to expect someone to use examples from outside their domain expertise Right, I get that. But... It did seem like he derailed his own point into a weird cultural commentary on programmers though That's what I was commenting on - the way DW connected the initial thesis to the commentary made it seem (to me anyway) that these expectations were exclusive to programmers.

kunai 14y ago

Hmm. Perhaps if we expected more, then geeks wouldn't post up broken links for fear of under-delivering. Just go to http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/ if you want to see the article.

gregd 14y ago

I expected the URL to work...so therefore, I must be one of the ones that expect too much from geeks.

mjbellantoni 14y ago

This link works for me: 2jg.r2.ly (this is DW's link shortener.)

auggierose 14y ago

So the article says in Silicon Valley you can go far if you are male and young. I am male, but not as young as 15 years ago. Guess I have to make it outside of Silicon Valley ...

swombat 14y ago
Don't worry, outside is a lot bigger. :-)
michaelochurch 14y ago
I didn't get to experience it in that way, but I wonder how much of the advantage of being young is legit. It is easiest to get jobs when you're 22, but it's hard to get good jobs and most of your attractiveness seems to be that it's much easier to take advantage of you.

davewiner 14y ago

Sorry the server is getting swamped. Right now the best place to read this piece is http://scripting.com/ http://scripting.com/. Update: Traffic seems to have abated a bit. Not going to move it.

10dpd 14y ago

The problem is that the level of abstraction in modern languages means that the bar to becoming a programmer today is a lot lower than it was say in the 70s. Can you imagine explaining to a programmer in the 70s that they'd be able to determine someones precise location, place that location on an interactive map, and share it with all their friends, all from a tiny device that they keep in their pocket thats programmed using a simple, high-level API? As a result, yes society does expect a lot from programmers, and rightly so.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
davewiner 14y ago
The languages haven't changed much, but the price of computers has gone down. In the 80s there were much simpler development environments than we have now. Turbo Pascal and Think C were the two I used. It would be great to combine that level of ease of use and the browser or server-side programming environment. But no one has gotten there yet. As far as envisioning today's world of computing in the 70s, I was a programmer in the 70s and we envisioned this and a lot more. Read Ted Nelson's book Dream Machines for an idea.
- Vivtek 14y ago
  Yeah, any reader of Omni was right on board - I know I was. My mom worked at the post office (rural carrier) and I blew her mind telling her that email would largely supplant postal mail. She just reminded me of that last year, actually. We all knew it was coming. Also - yeah. I kind of miss Turbo Pascal. But I'd never give up CPAN for it. Ha.
Swizec 14y ago
Surely you're joking. In the 70's everyone thought computers understanding human speech and talking back in a natural language was just around the corner. We still haven't gotten there. Similar for general AI.
dakimov 14y ago

mimog 14y ago

Strange article. I don't think its an innate geek property to feel almighty and infallible. The author seems to be conufsing geek with silicon valley megalomaniac/serial entrepremanur.

benatkin 14y ago
Well as Anechoic said, in the post he keeps referencing programmers. This may refer more closely to the silicon valley types. But I know there are many outside silicon valley, and many within silicon valley who don't call themselves entrepreneurs but have an entrepreneurial mindset. I think if you look at the content and context of the article you can get a pretty good idea of what he means by "geek".

swombat 14y ago

When young people risk it all, it would be nice if there were people who understood what they're going through, who could offer some perspective. Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs, and you're going to be around for a long time, and this is just the beginning, part of the learning process, and while it looks like everything is great now, or falling apart, or whatever emotion is driving you at this moment, let's go for a walk, get a burger, see a movie and hang out for a bit, watch a game, and notice all the other stuff that's going on. This seems appropriate: http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm

benatkin 14y ago
Wonderful poem, and I like how it's presented. The public domain and the inexpensiveness in hosting allows for this.

rodh 14y ago

This article hits a nerve for me. There's in particular a sentence right at the start. "If you're young and think you're hot shit, and there's some reason to believe you are, you can go far, very quickly." When I think back at my time prior to going to University, I really did think this way. And I had reason to. Even during my time at University, that feeling never escaped me. Once I entered full-time employment (almost by accident. I had started my own limited company at this point), my attitude changed completely. I was surrounded by so many people so unbelievably more clever than me, I was humbled. It wasn't just their abilities, but their "maturity". Now I cringe to think of my attitude as little as 5 years ago. And I think I have reason to. Where I used to take pride in "fixing your 6-month problem in 4 days", I now realise I failed on a lot of aspects. I am now much more focused on doing things right. I focus on listening and understanding, on being tolerant and empathetic. I measure my work in quality, maintainability, measurable evidence. Every day I try my hardest to learn and to be a pioneer. I do think this is a positive improvement. But when I come across an article like this one, and recall my youthful naivety and enthusiasm, I do worry if I haven't perhaps lost something more important.

ramblerman 14y ago
Reminds me of this bit from "Zen and the art of archery" ---- Among swordmasters, on the basis of their own and their pupils' experience, it is taken as proved that the beginner, however strong and pugnacious he is, and however courageous and fearless he may be at the outset, loses not only his lack of self consciousness, but his self confidence, as soon as he starts taking lessons. He gets to know all the technical possibilities by which his life may be endangered in combat, and although he soon becomes capable of straining his attention to the utmost, of keeping a sharp watch on his opponent, Of parrying his thrusts correctly and making effective lunges, he is really worse off than before, when, half in jest and half in earnest, he struck about him at random under the inspiration of the moment and as the joy of battle suggested. He is now forced to admit that he is at the mercy of everyone who is stronger, more nimble and more practised than he.
- bluedanieru 14y ago
  On a related note, the more I would play Smash Brothers, the worse off I would be against people who had never played before and just picked up the controller and smashed buttons.

nerdfiles 14y ago

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're overriding my dyslexic fonts with your inappropriate inline style just like how most developers (Facebook, Reddit, and a whole laundry list of others) fail to observe relative font-sizes or the good-sense settings of the browser[1] . Now what am I supposed to do? I'm ALREADY using Stylish WITH "!important"; just imagine how systematic this problem is[2]. And yet the only response I typically get whenever I bring up this issue is that some know-it-all thinks I don't know how to customize my browser or whatever else. Or snide comments that such-and-such dyslexic font is "shit" or "ugly." Then I lose all of my street cred when I'm the one being mindful of accessibility (even if it is at the cost of garden variety aesthetic choices in the world of Helvetinauts). Please, red flag me for irrelevance; I've taken this kind of flack before[3]. But I am getting absolutely sick of this. Stop overriding good design choices with bad ones. _Why_ are you using inline styles? I'm going to keep shouting this until I get acknowledgment: no more fontwalls[4]! I was in reading mode, and your poor development practices just ruined that. Now I need a bloody cigarette. [1]: http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size [2]: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/the-reality-of-dyslexia-millions-struggle.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/the-reality-of-dys... [3]: http://www.reddit.com/r/css/comments/15q12g/youre_about_to_start_a_bloody_war_the_open/ http://www.reddit.com/r/css/comments/15q12g/youre_about_to_s... [4]: http://webjournal.nerdfiles.net/no-more-fontwalls/ http://webjournal.nerdfiles.net/no-more-fontwalls/

crazygringo 14y ago
Wait, since when are inline styles a poor development practice? Obviously they're a bad choice for large sites, but for a simple webpage (like a blog) that never needs to be extended and doesn't have repeating elements with lots of formatting, it seems to be a justifiable choice. For blog post content, especially. Is "!important" in your custom stylesheet not overriding it? It's supposed to, what is the technical problem? Also, what are fontwalls? You link to a paragraph with a typeface that is exceedingly difficult to read (is that the point?), and then the rest appears to be in hieroglyphics.
- nerdfiles 14y ago

tsahyt 14y ago

This was a very good article to read. Very thoughtful. It does somewhat hit a nerve for me too. Ever since I started digging deeper into the complexity of computing I've felt a bit dumber every time I learned something new. It's just staggering how complex those things are. It somehow makes me, my knowledge, feel insignificant. I know my way around software design. I can definitely write some good code. I know some of the theoretical aspects of computer science. In theory, I should have a grasp of all this and I probably do. Somehow though, I feel as if there was just so much more to know that declaring myself as "good" at this feels wrong. I've come to terms, that the Dunning-Kruger effect is a powerful force. The more I learn, the more I realize how much there's left to learn.

btilly 14y ago

I can't read this without wondering to what extent it is a response to the death of Aaron Swartz. Particularly considering that Aaron's suicide brought http://scripting.com/2003/06/29.html#When:9:33:43PM http://scripting.com/2003/06/29.html#When:9:33:43PM back to the attention of a number of people. In case you entirely missed this subtext, I recommend re-reading it, and seeing how well the glove fits on a possible perspective of Aaron's life.

charlieok 14y ago
...and things started off so well between them http://scripting.com/2001/02/19.html http://scripting.com/2001/02/19.html

jhuni 14y ago

> The other thing we all can do, if we love the product of technical minds, is stop thinking it's magic. There is magic in computers, but the magic isn't in the programmer or the tech writer or the visionary -- it's in the whole thing. The miracle isn't any one person, rather it's that humanity can collaborate to create something much greater than any one of us. If you consider the "whole thing" most computers still have proprietary programs put in place by profit-driven organizations to subjugate and control the users. That isn't magic its witchcraft. It would be a miracle if computer programs and all other forms of software were developed collaboratively rather then secretively.

dakimov 14y ago

When I was a Junior Developer I though I was a genius and knew everything about programming itself, I was not even interested in improving my coding skills, because I thought they were perfect, now after 8+ years I view myself as a rather ignorant guy who can barely create working programs.

joshuacc 14y ago

"Even better, if there was an oldtimer around when the world is telling you you're a god and can do no wrong, to tell you that's bullshit, to kick you in the butt, in a friendly way, tell you you're a mortal human being, and you need to understand that life has its ups and downs" I know that it's pretty fashionable to hate on religion, but this is something that religious wisdom literature and religious communities are often very good at providing.

ww520 14y ago

Funny thing. These days when I made a mistake, I kicked myself on my proverbial butt and said, "damn, that's stupid ROOKIE mistake. How could you miss that?"

hakaaaaak 14y ago

Here's my thing: I've never been hot shit. The closest was the 90s when everyone who knew anything about programming or networking was the bomb, maybe followed by working at a startup for the first time and really digging it and feeling like I was the man because they ran on code I wrote. Since then, I've gotten older. And increasingly more depressed about my job. I've changed workplaces and it doesn't help, if anything- it just changed the nature of it all. After burning out working crazy hours at startup company #2, I took a job that was way too easy. Fell into the trap and now I'm older, my mind doesn't work, and I'm back at a startup in higher stress. I've not learned much really except that I don't like it.

marshray 14y ago

Writing computer programs is hard. Doing it for long hours, day in day out, is unnatural. Nevertheless, 'Software Engineer' is nearly always at near the top of those "best" careers listings. I'm not saying it shouldn't be, but don't expect non-programmer family and friends to understand. It's important to recognize the signs of burnout and acknowledge it before you get to the point where you never want to touch a computer again.