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The article makes some great points, but is entirely undermined by Gruber stating that "iOS - and the iPhone in particular - is its leading edge", with "its" re

The article makes some great points, but is entirely undermined by Gruber stating that "iOS - and the iPhone in particular - is its leading edge", with "its" referring to flat design. At the same time, he reduces Windows Phone/Metro to a footnote, and can't even stomach mentioning Google's Holo design. That is nothing short of insane. Just because a few applications on iOS use a flat(ter) design, iOS is the leading edge of flat design? That makes no sense, when there's Windows Phone and Windows 8, two high-profile products from one of the largest technology companies in the world which have adopted this design style to its very extremes. Heck, even Google has adopted this flat design to a great degree with Holo and, by lack of a better name, the "Google Now"-theme. Yes, there is a trend towards this flat design, but if you're looking for its leading edge, iOS, and Apple as a whole, is about as far removed from said edge as possible. I'm not sure if Gruber is intentionally dishonest, or if he actually believes what he's writing here. I'm not sure which is worse.

Steko 14y ago
"entirely undermined ... nothing short of insane." No it's not remotely 'insane', it's just mildly ignorant. As for 'entirely undermined', clearly the important takeaway from the article has nothing to do with which platform is at the leading edge. And if you follow the thesis that "retina" quality displays are what's encouraging flat ui design. it's hard to get away from the fact that Apple has been leading the way on that front.
- Adaptive 14y ago
  No, it is insane. Gruber positions himself as a voice of Apple/Design authority and is in a position to do so. For him to make the claims he does and title this article as it is, and then ignore the actual design trends is ridiculous. Another reason why he comes across as more Apple shill than journalist, which is a shame.
  - Steko 14y ago
    You clearly don't know what 'insane' means and I wonder if we even read the same article. Gruber has been a very vocal critics of Apple's hard on for skeuomorphism for a long time. When he says the "timing of this trend, and the fact that iOS — and the iPhone in particular — is its leading edge, is not coincidental" he is most certainly not talking about the OS itself. This should be obvious because in the very next paragraph he says that "the whole default iOS look" is made up of "phony effects". But I guess if you're just here to get your HN rubber stamp upvotes by calling Gruber a one dimensional Apple shill you might have missed that.
    - camus 14y ago
      yep he should have used the word dishonest or flat out lying...
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    Downvoted for the last sentence: Gruber explicitly writes that the "whole default iOS look [...] is optimized for non-retina displays", as in: Apple is doing this all wrong. If anything, his insane statement makes him a shill for third-party Apple developers. (And I would agree that he overestimates the universal love for Letterpress, but basically all of the blogosphere was fawning over it. How much $$$ has it raked in compared to Carcassonne, which is almost a parody of skeuomorphism?)
- FredFredrickson 14y ago
  A little late with the reply here, but I think that his thesis is bogus. So-called "retina" displays are not the reason for flat / modern UI designs moving away from skeuomorphism. I would argue it's just a new trend that naturally developed both from a wont to get away from the old, and from the relatively new sophistication of on-screen design tools (like CSS3, HTML5, etc).
vor_ 14y ago
How many people are using Windows 8 compared to iOS? iOS is a trend leader of design, like it or not.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  Way more people eat MacDonalds than at high-end restaurants, but few would argue that MacDonalds is the "leading edge" of cuisine. And if you were to characterize the leading edge as the product with the biggest userbase, Android's is larger than iOS's.
  - jawngee 14y ago
    So by your logic, Android is the McDonald's.
    - mcantelon 14y ago
      In so far as it gives people what they want for cheap and is widely available, sure.
    - moskie 14y ago
      The logic is that "leading edge" and "popular" are not necessarily related.
      - vor_ 14y ago
        But surely the fact that very few use Windows 8 could signify that it is not the leading edge, because it is unpopular.
        moskie 14y ago
        Sure, it could. It could also be ahead of its time. Do you have an argument as to why Windows 8 and Windows Phone is not leading edge, besides the fact that it isn't very popular?
bhauer 14y ago
Thank you for making this point. As I read that claim, I simply laughed. Certainly Metro is the most recognizable name for a design motif characterized as "flat," and then as you've pointed out Google's Holo motif is a close second. iOS is many things, but the forerunner of minimalist or flat design? Hardly. To an extent, I agree with some replies that say, "Well, nevermind, that wasn't really central to the point being made." Yes, but it would be like me saying Java is at the forefront of first-class functions because Java 8 is doing lambdas and then going on to talk about first-class functions.

Steko 14y ago

"entirely undermined ... nothing short of insane." No it's not remotely 'insane', it's just mildly ignorant. As for 'entirely undermined', clearly the important takeaway from the article has nothing to do with which platform is at the leading edge. And if you follow the thesis that "retina" quality displays are what's encouraging flat ui design. it's hard to get away from the fact that Apple has been leading the way on that front.

Adaptive 14y ago
No, it is insane. Gruber positions himself as a voice of Apple/Design authority and is in a position to do so. For him to make the claims he does and title this article as it is, and then ignore the actual design trends is ridiculous. Another reason why he comes across as more Apple shill than journalist, which is a shame.
- Steko 14y ago
  You clearly don't know what 'insane' means and I wonder if we even read the same article. Gruber has been a very vocal critics of Apple's hard on for skeuomorphism for a long time. When he says the "timing of this trend, and the fact that iOS — and the iPhone in particular — is its leading edge, is not coincidental" he is most certainly not talking about the OS itself. This should be obvious because in the very next paragraph he says that "the whole default iOS look" is made up of "phony effects". But I guess if you're just here to get your HN rubber stamp upvotes by calling Gruber a one dimensional Apple shill you might have missed that.
  - camus 14y ago
    yep he should have used the word dishonest or flat out lying...
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  Downvoted for the last sentence: Gruber explicitly writes that the "whole default iOS look [...] is optimized for non-retina displays", as in: Apple is doing this all wrong. If anything, his insane statement makes him a shill for third-party Apple developers. (And I would agree that he overestimates the universal love for Letterpress, but basically all of the blogosphere was fawning over it. How much $$$ has it raked in compared to Carcassonne, which is almost a parody of skeuomorphism?)
FredFredrickson 14y ago
A little late with the reply here, but I think that his thesis is bogus. So-called "retina" displays are not the reason for flat / modern UI designs moving away from skeuomorphism. I would argue it's just a new trend that naturally developed both from a wont to get away from the old, and from the relatively new sophistication of on-screen design tools (like CSS3, HTML5, etc).

vor_ 14y ago

How many people are using Windows 8 compared to iOS? iOS is a trend leader of design, like it or not.

mcantelon 14y ago
Way more people eat MacDonalds than at high-end restaurants, but few would argue that MacDonalds is the "leading edge" of cuisine. And if you were to characterize the leading edge as the product with the biggest userbase, Android's is larger than iOS's.
- jawngee 14y ago
  So by your logic, Android is the McDonald's.
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    In so far as it gives people what they want for cheap and is widely available, sure.
  - moskie 14y ago
    The logic is that "leading edge" and "popular" are not necessarily related.
    - vor_ 14y ago
      But surely the fact that very few use Windows 8 could signify that it is not the leading edge, because it is unpopular.
      - moskie 14y ago
        Sure, it could. It could also be ahead of its time. Do you have an argument as to why Windows 8 and Windows Phone is not leading edge, besides the fact that it isn't very popular?

bhauer 14y ago

Thank you for making this point. As I read that claim, I simply laughed. Certainly Metro is the most recognizable name for a design motif characterized as "flat," and then as you've pointed out Google's Holo motif is a close second. iOS is many things, but the forerunner of minimalist or flat design? Hardly. To an extent, I agree with some replies that say, "Well, nevermind, that wasn't really central to the point being made." Yes, but it would be like me saying Java is at the forefront of first-class functions because Java 8 is doing lambdas and then going on to talk about first-class functions.