4 ms·

Reminds me of a great article I saw posted on HN a few months ago. I wish I could remember where it was, but it basically said "You'll never get anywhere by ski

Reminds me of a great article I saw posted on HN a few months ago. I wish I could remember where it was, but it basically said "You'll never get anywhere by skipping coffee and bringing lunch to work, focus on the big gains like increasing your salary by 30% instead". The frugal lifestyle BS most likely does more harm than good for the average person. People shouldn't be sacrificing quality of life because they're worried about nickels and dimes, especially not in retirement.

patdennis 14y ago
MMM's main thesis is that the quality of life bit takes care of itself through hedonic adaption [1]. If you can make it to that point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
afterburner 14y ago
I agree. It reminds me of the story of a low income divorced father barely scraping by month to month, who could have used a several hundred dollar windfall to try his shot at a trade school or some such training program, but instead spent it on a fun weekend with his son when he had a couple days with him. Long term possibly maybe shot at improving his life slightly, or a good life experience with his son now... it's not an obvious decision. And that kind of thinking applies to far less noble uses of the money as well, such as beers with friends and such.
- hudibras 14y ago
  Don't want to make too much of your story but the father had a third option: use the money for the trade school and then say to his son, "Money's tight because I'm going back to school, so this weekend we're going camping (or taking a bus to the beach or watching DVDs from the library) instead of driving to Disneyland. Is that okay with you?"
  - afterburner 14y ago
    I can't remember exactly if the money was to be used for travel costs to see his son, or if he was spending it more "inefficiently", but yes, of course there are usually more options. Those options can be constrained by what the father and/or son consider fun though, and when your life is crappy and you're living month to month, you might not have the energy to think outside the box or try something new. There might be a problem though of people thinking having fun = spending.
jordan0day 14y ago
We should note how fortunate many of us are to be working in an industry where increasing your salary by 30% doesn't require a ton of extra work or going back to school and obtaining an advanced degree. For software developers, increasing your salary by 30% usually just requires: - A little extra work after-hours and weekends, improving on your craft. - Changing the company you work for. I don't think this is quite so easy for say, an educator, or a firefighter, or a plethora of other occupations.
- Irregardless 14y ago
  True, but it's just one example of a bigger point. I.e. stop pinching pennies and aim for larger savings or gains instead. Swizec posted the name of the guy who wrote the article I was thinking of, Ramit Sethi. Here's one where he talks a little about the issues with frugality: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/save-on-coffee/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/save-on-coffee/
  - muzz 14y ago
    I'm always amazed that coffee, cable tv, or smart phones are called out as budget "excesses". For most people, their biggest expenditure every month is housing, then followed by transportation. If one wants to cut spending at all, the huge savings are made here. I.e. don't "consume" more housing than you need-- rent out extra bedrooms or get roommates if you have an apartment, don't drive an expensive auto when a cheaper one will suffice. The savings that can be made here-- hundreds in the case of transportation, possibly thousand+ in the case of housing-- far overshadow the amounts that can be saved by cutting back on coffee, etc.
    - wiredfool 14y ago
      For me, coffee is so far down in the noise as to be ignored. But it's also made in my kitchen. For my family, in order (note, not CA): Health insurance, Mortgage, Food, Taxes, Day care. Transportation misses by a long shot, maybe a factor of 4 from taxes, and 2 from day care. If I had to cut something, Day care is the easiest chunk, as it's not strictly necessary, but it's a sanity thing. (This isn't quite accurate, since I haven't added in the company contribution to taxes, but I have to health insurance. Anyway. )
jimbokun 14y ago
"You'll never get anywhere by skipping coffee and bringing lunch to work, focus on the big gains like increasing your salary by 30% instead". Most likely, your spending will just increase by 30% along with it. Instead of the latte, maybe it's a new computer, car, or vacation now. Ever read about athletes and celebrities and entertainers who make 10s of millions and end up broke? Without some form of discipline, our capacity to squander wealth is astounding.
nanidin 14y ago
When I started using Mint, I became aware of how I was spending my money. That cognizance made it easy to cut back in areas like going out to eat and going out at night in a way that didn't impact my quality of life. I started hosting group dinners and did my nights out more efficiently (happy hours, house parties, etc.) 2 years later I had a ton of savings, quit my job and left to travel the world for a while.

patdennis 14y ago

MMM's main thesis is that the quality of life bit takes care of itself through hedonic adaption [1]. If you can make it to that point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

afterburner 14y ago

I agree. It reminds me of the story of a low income divorced father barely scraping by month to month, who could have used a several hundred dollar windfall to try his shot at a trade school or some such training program, but instead spent it on a fun weekend with his son when he had a couple days with him. Long term possibly maybe shot at improving his life slightly, or a good life experience with his son now... it's not an obvious decision. And that kind of thinking applies to far less noble uses of the money as well, such as beers with friends and such.

hudibras 14y ago
Don't want to make too much of your story but the father had a third option: use the money for the trade school and then say to his son, "Money's tight because I'm going back to school, so this weekend we're going camping (or taking a bus to the beach or watching DVDs from the library) instead of driving to Disneyland. Is that okay with you?"
- afterburner 14y ago
  I can't remember exactly if the money was to be used for travel costs to see his son, or if he was spending it more "inefficiently", but yes, of course there are usually more options. Those options can be constrained by what the father and/or son consider fun though, and when your life is crappy and you're living month to month, you might not have the energy to think outside the box or try something new. There might be a problem though of people thinking having fun = spending.

jordan0day 14y ago

We should note how fortunate many of us are to be working in an industry where increasing your salary by 30% doesn't require a ton of extra work or going back to school and obtaining an advanced degree. For software developers, increasing your salary by 30% usually just requires: - A little extra work after-hours and weekends, improving on your craft. - Changing the company you work for. I don't think this is quite so easy for say, an educator, or a firefighter, or a plethora of other occupations.

Irregardless 14y ago
True, but it's just one example of a bigger point. I.e. stop pinching pennies and aim for larger savings or gains instead. Swizec posted the name of the guy who wrote the article I was thinking of, Ramit Sethi. Here's one where he talks a little about the issues with frugality: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/save-on-coffee/ http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/save-on-coffee/
- muzz 14y ago
  I'm always amazed that coffee, cable tv, or smart phones are called out as budget "excesses". For most people, their biggest expenditure every month is housing, then followed by transportation. If one wants to cut spending at all, the huge savings are made here. I.e. don't "consume" more housing than you need-- rent out extra bedrooms or get roommates if you have an apartment, don't drive an expensive auto when a cheaper one will suffice. The savings that can be made here-- hundreds in the case of transportation, possibly thousand+ in the case of housing-- far overshadow the amounts that can be saved by cutting back on coffee, etc.
  - wiredfool 14y ago
    For me, coffee is so far down in the noise as to be ignored. But it's also made in my kitchen. For my family, in order (note, not CA): Health insurance, Mortgage, Food, Taxes, Day care. Transportation misses by a long shot, maybe a factor of 4 from taxes, and 2 from day care. If I had to cut something, Day care is the easiest chunk, as it's not strictly necessary, but it's a sanity thing. (This isn't quite accurate, since I haven't added in the company contribution to taxes, but I have to health insurance. Anyway. )

jimbokun 14y ago

"You'll never get anywhere by skipping coffee and bringing lunch to work, focus on the big gains like increasing your salary by 30% instead". Most likely, your spending will just increase by 30% along with it. Instead of the latte, maybe it's a new computer, car, or vacation now. Ever read about athletes and celebrities and entertainers who make 10s of millions and end up broke? Without some form of discipline, our capacity to squander wealth is astounding.

nanidin 14y ago

When I started using Mint, I became aware of how I was spending my money. That cognizance made it easy to cut back in areas like going out to eat and going out at night in a way that didn't impact my quality of life. I started hosting group dinners and did my nights out more efficiently (happy hours, house parties, etc.) 2 years later I had a ton of savings, quit my job and left to travel the world for a while.