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A Minecraft-like Block Based Game Engine Using Three.js, WebGL and Node

98 points by mariuz 14y ago

xhrpost 14y ago
I'm really looking forward to seeing more gaming in the browser and hope it catches on. Imagine writing a game and it works on all platforms, PC, Mac, Tablet Android, iOS, etc. Also, TV manufacturers keep putting more powerful chips in their TV's for HD decoding. Couple with this a good browser, could we eventually see an end to console gaming because everyone's TV can play 3D games? Not to mention a lot of the TV's already have network capability. There's plenty of progress to make no doubt but it seems like a serious possibility to me.
- ryandvm 14y ago
  Agreed. Someone please make an AOE2 clone for the browser. It's the perfect environment for multiplayer RTS.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I think the big barrier for building a multiplayer RTS in the browser would be the lack of UDP sockets. You could certainly do something with websockets but it may involve making substantial compromises. With TVs you have the added issue that people probably don't want to replace their whole TV every couple of years just to upgrade the graphics or whatever.
    - xhrpost 14y ago
      > I think the big barrier for building a multiplayer RTS in the browser would be the lack of UDP sockets. This is brought up often but it appears some basic multiplayer is possible over websockets (I've written a very simple game using them). If UDP is that necessary, people will push for it and we'll eventually see it (or something equivalent) in the browser. > With TVs you have the added issue that people probably don't want to replace their whole TV every couple of years just to upgrade the graphics or whatever. This is turning out to be less of the case though as older PC hardware can still run newer games. The need for graphics is no longer growing faster than the resources to power them. This is especially noticable in the indie game market where rather simple graphics games have become very popular. Even high-end games don't "need" new power as much as they once did, the PS3 is what, 7 years old now?
    - daredevildave 14y ago
      Hopefully WebRTC data channels will enable UDP-like comms from the browser.
      - satori99 14y ago
        My understanding is that WebRTC includes udp-like connections between browsers directly. P2P, rather than client-server.
    - rprasad 14y ago
      AOE2 uses a "tick-based" system for synchronising input/commands, so it is possible to use websockets for multiplayer RTS simply by increasing the length of each tick. I believe AOE2 and SC2 used ticks of 200 ms or 250 ms; more modern RTS games use tick length of 100 ms. Generally, in each tick player (or AI) input is received and then transmitted to the server or all other players. In the next tick, that input is then processed by each player's individual simulation of the game world. A tick-based system does a decent job of handling latency by distracting the player the delay between input and processing through audio confirmation of the order or through a response/transition animation. It would not work for games requiring low-latency, i.e., FPS shooters.
    - jchavannes 14y ago
      I've built a few prototype multiplayer games that use web sockets (Socket.io actually) and the performance has been encouraging. One game I posted on HN had over 30 concurrent users without noticeable lag. It was also terribly inefficient. Each client had 5 msgs/sec outgoing and 150 msgs/sec incoming. The incoming messages could definitely have been optimized.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- daredevildave 14y ago
  This is exactly the reason we started PlayCanvas [http://playcanvas.com http://playcanvas.com]. I don't think it will be long before there is a modern browser in every TV, phone and tablet, in addition to every desktop machine.
  - xhrpost 14y ago
    I've seen you guys before, I'm gonna have to play around with this sometime. I like how you've decided to also be the publisher/CDN for the games. Right now it seems like everyone who launches some demo has to build and manage their own web presence. Something a native game developer doesn't necessarily have to do. This could help take that extra load off their back. I imagine you'll eventually offer internal APIs of sorts like Steam does, achievements, cloud storage for saved games, etc.
    - daredevildave 14y ago
      Please do get in touch. We love how easy it is to get a sample/demo/game published using PlayCanvas, we use it _all_ the time. We offer the option to download your game export and host it yourself but it's one button to publish to PlayCanvas so we're sure most people will want to do that.
- rartichoke 14y ago
  If you can deal with downloading a Java plugin there's some pretty advanced games that run in a browser. Example: http://www.drakensang.com http://www.drakensang.com
  - kayoone 14y ago
    not really, its just a native code wrapper and most games still require Windows
pixie_ 14y ago
Can it handle rendering the star ship enterprise all at once?
modeless 14y ago
A friend of mine made something similar, plus multiplayer support (and minus gravity): http://benvanik.github.com/blk-game/ http://benvanik.github.com/blk-game/
- alxndr 14y ago
  Wow.
  - dirkk0 14y ago
    wow indeed.
- hybrid11 14y ago
  are there any public servers that we could connect to?
  - dirkk0 14y ago
    just mine: ws://107.21.150.140:1338
    - dirkk0 14y ago
      this is incredible: I created the server and seconds ago, people were already building. The power of Minecraft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIwUoT4hOcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIwUoT4hOcs
      - tinco 14y ago
        Haha, it's a nice place! I finished someones house and then made a lake beside it :) Now I want to live there ;)
        dirkk0 14y ago
        +1 and like! :-)
      - 14y ago
jiggy2011 14y ago
I'm always curious how much optimisation is required for these big voxel engines. I assume since all voxels are the same size you can just batch draw them but even so there is going to be a lot within viewing distance that may be invisible. Are they all just assigned to an octtree and then culled against the view frustum or do you really need some clever occlusion culling?
- whatshisface 14y ago
  Nobody draws voxels, graphics cards aren't good at them. I don't know about these engines in particular, but in minecraft everything is converted to polygon meshes.
  - manveru 14y ago
    Nobody these days, but one of my all-time favorite games is Outcast[1], which used voxels for the terrain and polygons for smaller details. All it needed was a good CPU. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_%28video_game%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_%28video_game%29
    - buster 14y ago
      Haha, i had that too.. fun game.. i think the characters were polygons, though :) Also there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_series even before Outcast. I don't think it used polygons. It was launched years before 3D graphics cards, too..
- eropple 14y ago
  Every "voxel engine" I've ever seen just draws polygons. One of my co-conspirators on a side project[1] used surface nets over voxels with density bits to create slope-friendly meshes that are also used for physics calculations. Each mesh is pretty large and there are some economies of scale for drawing larger meshes like these. Minecraft for a long time just batched each visible side, I think even ignoring occlusion, and drew it; I don't know if they precompute larger meshes now. [1] - http://static.largerussiangames.com/voxels/videos/rigidbodies.mp4 http://static.largerussiangames.com/voxels/videos/rigidbodie... (Each 'companion cube' is really attached to a spherical physics body, the physics aren't mapped to the mesh.)
AJay17 14y ago
Ogden and Halliday are both names from the book Ready Player One (http://goo.gl/f3OUa http://goo.gl/f3OUa). Is this just a coincidence?
geuis 14y ago
I'm confused. How does one simply play in the world? I see lots of docs for components and such, but no simple "Play here" button or link.
exemd 14y ago
Manic Digger, a C# open source clone of Minecraft and Ace of Spades, is also getting a WebGL version. http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/ http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/ - click "development news" I make it with Script# (C# to JS converter), WebGL, and WebSockets. Both desktop OpenTK version and WebGL version can be compiled from common source. But it's missing 2 weeks of work to finish the port.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
Is there a playable form of this somewhere? I spent a few minutes looking around...
- substack 14y ago
  Click on any of these demos: http://voxeljs.com/#gallery http://voxeljs.com/#gallery
jontwist 14y ago
If only someone could turn this into a useful UI for dwarf fortress!
substack 14y ago
And another new voxeljs module for portals: https://github.com/substack/voxel-portal https://github.com/substack/voxel-portal http://substack.net/projects/voxel-portal/ http://substack.net/projects/voxel-portal/

98 points by mariuz 14y ago

I'm really looking forward to seeing more gaming in the browser and hope it catches on. Imagine writing a game and it works on all platforms, PC, Mac, Tablet Android, iOS, etc. Also, TV manufacturers keep putting more powerful chips in their TV's for HD decoding. Couple with this a good browser, could we eventually see an end to console gaming because everyone's TV can play 3D games? Not to mention a lot of the TV's already have network capability. There's plenty of progress to make no doubt but it seems like a serious possibility to me.

ryandvm 14y ago
Agreed. Someone please make an AOE2 clone for the browser. It's the perfect environment for multiplayer RTS.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I think the big barrier for building a multiplayer RTS in the browser would be the lack of UDP sockets. You could certainly do something with websockets but it may involve making substantial compromises. With TVs you have the added issue that people probably don't want to replace their whole TV every couple of years just to upgrade the graphics or whatever.
  - xhrpost 14y ago
    > I think the big barrier for building a multiplayer RTS in the browser would be the lack of UDP sockets. This is brought up often but it appears some basic multiplayer is possible over websockets (I've written a very simple game using them). If UDP is that necessary, people will push for it and we'll eventually see it (or something equivalent) in the browser. > With TVs you have the added issue that people probably don't want to replace their whole TV every couple of years just to upgrade the graphics or whatever. This is turning out to be less of the case though as older PC hardware can still run newer games. The need for graphics is no longer growing faster than the resources to power them. This is especially noticable in the indie game market where rather simple graphics games have become very popular. Even high-end games don't "need" new power as much as they once did, the PS3 is what, 7 years old now?
  - daredevildave 14y ago
    Hopefully WebRTC data channels will enable UDP-like comms from the browser.
    - satori99 14y ago
      My understanding is that WebRTC includes udp-like connections between browsers directly. P2P, rather than client-server.
  - rprasad 14y ago
    AOE2 uses a "tick-based" system for synchronising input/commands, so it is possible to use websockets for multiplayer RTS simply by increasing the length of each tick. I believe AOE2 and SC2 used ticks of 200 ms or 250 ms; more modern RTS games use tick length of 100 ms. Generally, in each tick player (or AI) input is received and then transmitted to the server or all other players. In the next tick, that input is then processed by each player's individual simulation of the game world. A tick-based system does a decent job of handling latency by distracting the player the delay between input and processing through audio confirmation of the order or through a response/transition animation. It would not work for games requiring low-latency, i.e., FPS shooters.
  - jchavannes 14y ago
    I've built a few prototype multiplayer games that use web sockets (Socket.io actually) and the performance has been encouraging. One game I posted on HN had over 30 concurrent users without noticeable lag. It was also terribly inefficient. Each client had 5 msgs/sec outgoing and 150 msgs/sec incoming. The incoming messages could definitely have been optimized.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
daredevildave 14y ago
This is exactly the reason we started PlayCanvas [http://playcanvas.com http://playcanvas.com]. I don't think it will be long before there is a modern browser in every TV, phone and tablet, in addition to every desktop machine.
- xhrpost 14y ago
  I've seen you guys before, I'm gonna have to play around with this sometime. I like how you've decided to also be the publisher/CDN for the games. Right now it seems like everyone who launches some demo has to build and manage their own web presence. Something a native game developer doesn't necessarily have to do. This could help take that extra load off their back. I imagine you'll eventually offer internal APIs of sorts like Steam does, achievements, cloud storage for saved games, etc.
  - daredevildave 14y ago
    Please do get in touch. We love how easy it is to get a sample/demo/game published using PlayCanvas, we use it _all_ the time. We offer the option to download your game export and host it yourself but it's one button to publish to PlayCanvas so we're sure most people will want to do that.
rartichoke 14y ago
If you can deal with downloading a Java plugin there's some pretty advanced games that run in a browser. Example: http://www.drakensang.com http://www.drakensang.com
- kayoone 14y ago
  not really, its just a native code wrapper and most games still require Windows

pixie_ 14y ago

Can it handle rendering the star ship enterprise all at once?

modeless 14y ago

A friend of mine made something similar, plus multiplayer support (and minus gravity): http://benvanik.github.com/blk-game/ http://benvanik.github.com/blk-game/

alxndr 14y ago
Wow.
- dirkk0 14y ago
  wow indeed.
hybrid11 14y ago
are there any public servers that we could connect to?
- dirkk0 14y ago
  just mine: ws://107.21.150.140:1338
  - dirkk0 14y ago
    this is incredible: I created the server and seconds ago, people were already building. The power of Minecraft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIwUoT4hOcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIwUoT4hOcs
    - tinco 14y ago
      Haha, it's a nice place! I finished someones house and then made a lake beside it :) Now I want to live there ;)
      - dirkk0 14y ago
        +1 and like! :-)
    - 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago

I'm always curious how much optimisation is required for these big voxel engines. I assume since all voxels are the same size you can just batch draw them but even so there is going to be a lot within viewing distance that may be invisible. Are they all just assigned to an octtree and then culled against the view frustum or do you really need some clever occlusion culling?

whatshisface 14y ago
Nobody draws voxels, graphics cards aren't good at them. I don't know about these engines in particular, but in minecraft everything is converted to polygon meshes.
- manveru 14y ago
  Nobody these days, but one of my all-time favorite games is Outcast[1], which used voxels for the terrain and polygons for smaller details. All it needed was a good CPU. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_%28video_game%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_%28video_game%29
  - buster 14y ago
    Haha, i had that too.. fun game.. i think the characters were polygons, though :) Also there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_series even before Outcast. I don't think it used polygons. It was launched years before 3D graphics cards, too..
eropple 14y ago
Every "voxel engine" I've ever seen just draws polygons. One of my co-conspirators on a side project[1] used surface nets over voxels with density bits to create slope-friendly meshes that are also used for physics calculations. Each mesh is pretty large and there are some economies of scale for drawing larger meshes like these. Minecraft for a long time just batched each visible side, I think even ignoring occlusion, and drew it; I don't know if they precompute larger meshes now. [1] - http://static.largerussiangames.com/voxels/videos/rigidbodies.mp4 http://static.largerussiangames.com/voxels/videos/rigidbodie... (Each 'companion cube' is really attached to a spherical physics body, the physics aren't mapped to the mesh.)

AJay17 14y ago

Ogden and Halliday are both names from the book Ready Player One (http://goo.gl/f3OUa http://goo.gl/f3OUa). Is this just a coincidence?

geuis 14y ago

I'm confused. How does one simply play in the world? I see lots of docs for components and such, but no simple "Play here" button or link.

exemd 14y ago

Manic Digger, a C# open source clone of Minecraft and Ace of Spades, is also getting a WebGL version. http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/ http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/ - click "development news" I make it with Script# (C# to JS converter), WebGL, and WebSockets. Both desktop OpenTK version and WebGL version can be compiled from common source. But it's missing 2 weeks of work to finish the port.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

Is there a playable form of this somewhere? I spent a few minutes looking around...

substack 14y ago
Click on any of these demos: http://voxeljs.com/#gallery http://voxeljs.com/#gallery

jontwist 14y ago

If only someone could turn this into a useful UI for dwarf fortress!

substack 14y ago

And another new voxeljs module for portals: https://github.com/substack/voxel-portal https://github.com/substack/voxel-portal http://substack.net/projects/voxel-portal/ http://substack.net/projects/voxel-portal/