5 ms·

sentenced to three years of probation, 400 hours of community service, a fine of $10,050 I dare to say Aaron might still be around if that was what he was faci

by rmc 14y ago

sentenced to three years of probation, 400 hours of community service, a fine of $10,050 I dare to say Aaron might still be around if that was what he was facing too. Or, y'know you could listen to charities who work with suicide and do what they request and avoid blaming a suicide on one external cause? Often it's more complicated than that.

sp4rki 14y ago
Exactly! We don't know what Aaron would have been sentenced to, and it would probably have been a mere fraction of the maximum penalty. There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. Regardless the world would have been a better place with him around, and it's a sad state of affairs that the rules and laws regarding computer crimes are so out of context and maybe even unjust. That being said, it was Aaron who took his own life, not the justice system regardless of how fucked up we believe it to be.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  > There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. And you know this how?
  - ritchiea 14y ago
    Because he wrote multiple times about depression on his public blog?
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      This has been exhausted I think, multiple times to see it rehashed all the time is a bit tiring. At the risk of boring people: 1) his lawyer and his closest family seem to agree that the lawsuit was the driving force 2) he did it on the anniversary of the start of the lawsuit 3) the actual trial was to start shortly 4) So far when under outside pressure he held up pretty good, but this was pressure far exceeding his previous exposure If you wish to argue the lawsuit was not the reason you're going to have to come up with something better.
      - ritchiea 14y ago
        I don't think anyone is saying the lawsuit wasn't a terrible burden on him, just that the lawsuit wasn't the only factor.
        jacquesm 14y ago
        > just that the lawsuit wasn't the only factor. I think you will find that most people are aware of that. But it very well could have been the factor that drove him over the edge and you're going to have to allow for that.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        The sack of bricks that broke the camels back, so to speak.
        rhizome 14y ago
        Who is saying that the case was the only factor? I've only seen it as a strawman by those arguing it away. I see these people as protecting the prosecution's perspective on the case. "Hey, don't look at us."
      - rmc 14y ago
        Perhaps, you misunderstand my original intentions. I'm not trying to stop the propagation of things I believe to be wrong. I have no idea if it was the trial or not. However other suicidal people reading us all saying "Oh it was definitely the trail, that's why he killed himself", they might just think that if there is a lot of external pressure they are justified in killing themselves. This might lead to people killing themselves. Please try to discourage that. It's like security research. We follow Responsible Disclosure for vulnerablities where you don't tell the public first. When there is a big bug (e.g. the recent Ruby on Rails bug), we don't all post links to proofs of concepts. Why? Because doing these things tends to result in innocent people getting hurt. The same thinking should be at play with suicide.
        Dylan16807 14y ago
- genwin 14y ago
  > There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. Facing prison for even 6 months is reason enough to kill yourself. Facing that plus rapes/AIDS/beatings/overcrowding in prison, plus a large fine, plus multiple years of probation, all for a victimless crime, is even more reason to kill yourself.
  - koide 14y ago
    Are you actually recommending suicide to all would be inmates, or just to the depressive HN readers who might be on a tight spot right now? Your comment strikes me as absolutely irresponsible and out of touch with reality. Prison is not a joke, but there's a reason the capital punishment is death. Why increase the sentence on your own?
    - genwin 14y ago
      Suicide is a viable option to what Aaron was facing, no depression needed. His life was all but ruined anyway. Plenty of people chose suicide on 9/11 rather than face something worse. Doubtful they were all irresponsible, depressed, or out of touch with reality. More likely they just made the best choice as they saw it.
      - koide 14y ago
        It's a great thing you can tell the future regarding Aaron's life had it continued. I'll ignore the strawman.
        genwin 14y ago
        Yet you are confident you can predict his future, it seems. I have an opinion about which of two options is better. Of course I could be wrong. Maybe Aaron would sell another piece of a company, enough to pay off the fine/penalties/interest and not be homeless. If it were me I'd jump off a bridge before I'd endure repeated anal rape, let alone everything else Aaron was facing.
rhizome 14y ago
There's a difference between contributing factors and proximate cause.

by rmc 14y ago

sp4rki 14y ago

Exactly! We don't know what Aaron would have been sentenced to, and it would probably have been a mere fraction of the maximum penalty. There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. Regardless the world would have been a better place with him around, and it's a sad state of affairs that the rules and laws regarding computer crimes are so out of context and maybe even unjust. That being said, it was Aaron who took his own life, not the justice system regardless of how fucked up we believe it to be.

jacquesm 14y ago
> There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. And you know this how?
- ritchiea 14y ago
  Because he wrote multiple times about depression on his public blog?
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    This has been exhausted I think, multiple times to see it rehashed all the time is a bit tiring. At the risk of boring people: 1) his lawyer and his closest family seem to agree that the lawsuit was the driving force 2) he did it on the anniversary of the start of the lawsuit 3) the actual trial was to start shortly 4) So far when under outside pressure he held up pretty good, but this was pressure far exceeding his previous exposure If you wish to argue the lawsuit was not the reason you're going to have to come up with something better.
    - ritchiea 14y ago
      I don't think anyone is saying the lawsuit wasn't a terrible burden on him, just that the lawsuit wasn't the only factor.
      - jacquesm 14y ago
        > just that the lawsuit wasn't the only factor. I think you will find that most people are aware of that. But it very well could have been the factor that drove him over the edge and you're going to have to allow for that.
        jlgreco 14y ago
        The sack of bricks that broke the camels back, so to speak.
      - rhizome 14y ago
        Who is saying that the case was the only factor? I've only seen it as a strawman by those arguing it away. I see these people as protecting the prosecution's perspective on the case. "Hey, don't look at us."
    - rmc 14y ago
      Perhaps, you misunderstand my original intentions. I'm not trying to stop the propagation of things I believe to be wrong. I have no idea if it was the trial or not. However other suicidal people reading us all saying "Oh it was definitely the trail, that's why he killed himself", they might just think that if there is a lot of external pressure they are justified in killing themselves. This might lead to people killing themselves. Please try to discourage that. It's like security research. We follow Responsible Disclosure for vulnerablities where you don't tell the public first. When there is a big bug (e.g. the recent Ruby on Rails bug), we don't all post links to proofs of concepts. Why? Because doing these things tends to result in innocent people getting hurt. The same thinking should be at play with suicide.
      - Dylan16807 14y ago
genwin 14y ago
> There was something else going on in his life that we don't and most probably won't know or ever understand that lead him to take his own life. Facing prison for even 6 months is reason enough to kill yourself. Facing that plus rapes/AIDS/beatings/overcrowding in prison, plus a large fine, plus multiple years of probation, all for a victimless crime, is even more reason to kill yourself.
- koide 14y ago
  Are you actually recommending suicide to all would be inmates, or just to the depressive HN readers who might be on a tight spot right now? Your comment strikes me as absolutely irresponsible and out of touch with reality. Prison is not a joke, but there's a reason the capital punishment is death. Why increase the sentence on your own?
  - genwin 14y ago
    Suicide is a viable option to what Aaron was facing, no depression needed. His life was all but ruined anyway. Plenty of people chose suicide on 9/11 rather than face something worse. Doubtful they were all irresponsible, depressed, or out of touch with reality. More likely they just made the best choice as they saw it.
    - koide 14y ago
      It's a great thing you can tell the future regarding Aaron's life had it continued. I'll ignore the strawman.
      - genwin 14y ago
        Yet you are confident you can predict his future, it seems. I have an opinion about which of two options is better. Of course I could be wrong. Maybe Aaron would sell another piece of a company, enough to pay off the fine/penalties/interest and not be homeless. If it were me I'd jump off a bridge before I'd endure repeated anal rape, let alone everything else Aaron was facing.

rhizome 14y ago

There's a difference between contributing factors and proximate cause.