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It's kind of depressing, that promoting phoniness and deception, is elevated to the top of HN as a cool 'hack'. Seriously? What ever happened to.. I don't know

by wamatt 14y ago

It's kind of depressing, that promoting phoniness and deception, is elevated to the top of HN as a cool 'hack'. Seriously? What ever happened to.. I don't know.. honor and integrity? While not all are guilty, it does appear somewhat hypocritical that a presumably similar group, would grumble about the ills of Wall St. execs, and yet simultaneously employ analogous reasoning, just splashed with a little erudite cologne. "Be creative, think outside the box", chanted COO Jeff Skilling whilst driving Enron to bold new heights. Results are all that matter right? 'Fuck the environment, or society or those pesky things of the past. What did you call them again? Morals? Oh how adorably cute and quaint.' What's it called when the effects of your actions are not easily measurable and are lost in a web of causality? Who cares... it's not like we're hurting anyone elses feelings directly. But I digress, and ranting somewhat, but please go ahead and rationalize it away (you'll feel better): (a) 'What nonsense, you're just over-extrapolating, those things are in no way connected.' (b) 'Ooh tell us how you really feel' (c) 'meh' (d) ...?

bambax 14y ago
When exactly was honor or integrity the norm? There have always been heroes, of course, but the reason there are heroes, and the reason we celebrate them, is because they're rare. Besides, social interactions need some amount of deception; makeup is deception (and fake breasts, and hair dye, etc.) Why pretending to have a girlfriend when you don't should be considered worse than makeup?
- wamatt 14y ago
  >Besides, social interactions need some amount of deception; makeup is deception (and fake breasts, and hair dye, etc.) Sure, I can empathize with that, no-one is perfect, not our heroes and certainly not myself. Ashamedly at one point, I seriously contemplated buying Twitter followers, as a quick boost to perceived social status. I was already rationalizing 'Oh it's just marketing' before deciding against it. It appears to be a slippery slope though, from which making up major parts of our life story, does seems rather far removed, from a flashy tie, or a dash of makeup. Could we not turn our gaze from heroes, instead towards ideals, knowing full well that we will never fully be able live up to them, but with the daily challenge to see how far we get?
pbhjpbhj 14y ago
>is elevated to the top of HN as a cool 'hack' // There's no "cool" rating. It's interesting, it's a social hack, ergo it gets ranked well.
belorn 14y ago
For this to be truly dishonorable, one would first have to accept that the enormous influenced by relationship status and physical appearance is a good thing. If one do not accept that relationship status and physical appearance should have such high impact on society, then such deception is not going to bring to mind any concept of dishonor or a lack of integrity. Enron on other hand had a large negative impact on society. Killing the environment also bring a large negative impact on society. Wall St. execs that cheats people out of their homes, steal farms from farmers, and put people homeless on the street clearly brings to mind the concepts of dishonor and a lack of integrity. Comparing deception directed at peoples superfluous obsession with relationship status and physical appearance, and deception that are made in an effort to earn money on the bones and lives of others are dishonest thinking. Its like comparing a DDOS attack against a corrupt police station, with terrorist attacks. They two things has nothing in common, and neither does Enron and deception regarding relationship status or physical appearance.
elorant 14y ago
Pardon me, but 90% of people tell lies in their CVs (which also happen to be in the social networking space). Every single person I know who has a profile at LinkedIn has falsified somehow their job history, their set of skills or their credentials. So why do we take for granted that someone can lie about his job skills but not about his personal life? If people are so retarded to appreciate you more when they see you with a beautiful woman (instead of I don't know, judge you by your character perhaps?), then you have every right to give them what they expect.
- wamatt 14y ago
  >If people are so retarded to appreciate you more when they see you with a beautiful woman (instead of I don't know, judge you by your character perhaps?) The irony of that statement just kills me. As for CV's, happily I've never needed one, and am certainly not an HR manager, but I'd be most surprised to find "90% of people" merrily go around inventing full-on fictitious companies they've worked for. For example: While I accept your point that some may color their CV's... falling short, by embellishing one's previous role at a prior company, is simply not in the same ballpark as inventing a completely fake person that you're dating. And for the record, the existence of gray in the world, does not give one a free pass, to simply proceed straight to black.
  - GFischer 14y ago
    I don't think the OP says people invent fictitious companies, but I see fiction and embellishment in a lot of CVs.. One guy that worked in the backroom sorting correspondence in the company I work for claimed he was "Manager" on his LinkedIn profile. And all the programmers I work with claim they "led" the projects they were in. I've yet to see somebody invent a company, but many cite their own freelance "companies" and their roles as CEOs. I do agree that there shouldn't be a free pass to proceeding straight to black.
- philwelch 14y ago
  > Every single person I know who has a profile at LinkedIn has falsified somehow their job history, their set of skills or their credentials. That says more about the company you keep than anything else.

by wamatt 14y ago

bambax 14y ago

When exactly was honor or integrity the norm? There have always been heroes, of course, but the reason there are heroes, and the reason we celebrate them, is because they're rare. Besides, social interactions need some amount of deception; makeup is deception (and fake breasts, and hair dye, etc.) Why pretending to have a girlfriend when you don't should be considered worse than makeup?

wamatt 14y ago
>Besides, social interactions need some amount of deception; makeup is deception (and fake breasts, and hair dye, etc.) Sure, I can empathize with that, no-one is perfect, not our heroes and certainly not myself. Ashamedly at one point, I seriously contemplated buying Twitter followers, as a quick boost to perceived social status. I was already rationalizing 'Oh it's just marketing' before deciding against it. It appears to be a slippery slope though, from which making up major parts of our life story, does seems rather far removed, from a flashy tie, or a dash of makeup. Could we not turn our gaze from heroes, instead towards ideals, knowing full well that we will never fully be able live up to them, but with the daily challenge to see how far we get?

pbhjpbhj 14y ago

>is elevated to the top of HN as a cool 'hack' // There's no "cool" rating. It's interesting, it's a social hack, ergo it gets ranked well.

belorn 14y ago

For this to be truly dishonorable, one would first have to accept that the enormous influenced by relationship status and physical appearance is a good thing. If one do not accept that relationship status and physical appearance should have such high impact on society, then such deception is not going to bring to mind any concept of dishonor or a lack of integrity. Enron on other hand had a large negative impact on society. Killing the environment also bring a large negative impact on society. Wall St. execs that cheats people out of their homes, steal farms from farmers, and put people homeless on the street clearly brings to mind the concepts of dishonor and a lack of integrity. Comparing deception directed at peoples superfluous obsession with relationship status and physical appearance, and deception that are made in an effort to earn money on the bones and lives of others are dishonest thinking. Its like comparing a DDOS attack against a corrupt police station, with terrorist attacks. They two things has nothing in common, and neither does Enron and deception regarding relationship status or physical appearance.

elorant 14y ago

Pardon me, but 90% of people tell lies in their CVs (which also happen to be in the social networking space). Every single person I know who has a profile at LinkedIn has falsified somehow their job history, their set of skills or their credentials. So why do we take for granted that someone can lie about his job skills but not about his personal life? If people are so retarded to appreciate you more when they see you with a beautiful woman (instead of I don't know, judge you by your character perhaps?), then you have every right to give them what they expect.

wamatt 14y ago
>If people are so retarded to appreciate you more when they see you with a beautiful woman (instead of I don't know, judge you by your character perhaps?) The irony of that statement just kills me. As for CV's, happily I've never needed one, and am certainly not an HR manager, but I'd be most surprised to find "90% of people" merrily go around inventing full-on fictitious companies they've worked for. For example: While I accept your point that some may color their CV's... falling short, by embellishing one's previous role at a prior company, is simply not in the same ballpark as inventing a completely fake person that you're dating. And for the record, the existence of gray in the world, does not give one a free pass, to simply proceed straight to black.
- GFischer 14y ago
  I don't think the OP says people invent fictitious companies, but I see fiction and embellishment in a lot of CVs.. One guy that worked in the backroom sorting correspondence in the company I work for claimed he was "Manager" on his LinkedIn profile. And all the programmers I work with claim they "led" the projects they were in. I've yet to see somebody invent a company, but many cite their own freelance "companies" and their roles as CEOs. I do agree that there shouldn't be a free pass to proceeding straight to black.
philwelch 14y ago
> Every single person I know who has a profile at LinkedIn has falsified somehow their job history, their set of skills or their credentials. That says more about the company you keep than anything else.