16 ms·
Via introduces APC Paper: A $99 Android PC
- hatu 14y agoWhat do they mean by Android 4.0 (PC System)? How is it a PC and not just Android?
- adam-a 14y agoTaking PC literally as personal computer I suppose, as in desktop computer, rather than specifically IBM compatible.
- yareally 14y agoPretty much every Android device I have encountered phone or tablet wise could at least chroot and allow the user to partition off and install some other version of Linux along side Android. So, though it comes with Android, you could probably get Debian, Fedora or whatever running on there as well.
- josteink 14y agoMost Android builds comes touch-optimized and configured out of the box to cater to touch-users. It might be a build which has more defaults tuned towards non-touch input like keyboard and mice. I know if you tried to run Android on Netbooks using the 2.x codebase (which was possible) you'd have a horrible user-experience due to the platform's limited support for non-touch input-devices. With Android 4.x the support for these has been improved to the point where you can call the thing a "PC" and almost use it as such. They may just be referring to this. I don't know.
- mhd 14y agoIf I read "PC" here, I'd expect something other than "phone" and "tablet" mode, i.e. a proper multi-tasking desktop view. But AFAIK that's not available, although there have been hints about something like that in 5.0.
- netcan 14y agoPeople seem to be a lot more interested in putting android in small computers than Chrome(ium)OS. I hope Google notices.
- jivatmanx 14y agoI'm pretty sure Google wants to keep both. Chrome-OS,a web-based OS, is a cool experiment whose results are useful to a lot of other things are doing.
- PommeDeTerre 14y agoThe only conclusion I can draw from the Chrome OS experiment is that consumers and developers aren't at all interested in it. It's yet another incarnation of the limited thin-client concept which has proven to be a failure time and time again.
- abrahamsen 14y agoA Chromebook is currently the best selling laptop on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Laptop/zgbs/pc/565108 http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Lap...
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- MatthewPhillips 14y agoYou sure about that? I'm willing to bet the Samsung Chromebox outsells this several times over.
- netcan 14y agoSure. Rightly so. The Samsung Chromebox uses an OS designed for it. I'm just remarking that people seem to be interested in making, buying and selling cheap, small android "PCs" (and media boxes & such). It worth remarking on specifically because it is not where Android was designed to go and it fits rather awkwardly. Imagine you sell taco kits. Then you discover some people are buying your taco kits, throwing away the shells, downloading instructions from the internet and using the other ingredients in different proportions to make bean soup. You also sell canned soup and it also sells decently. You might decide to bring out a bean soup range based on the taco kit. Maybe they think it tastes better then your intentional bean soup. Maybe they like making it themselves. Either way, it's worth noticing.
- ck2 14y agoI absolutely love the book case. Wish you could buy those. Would be neat for a Raspberry Pi and ironic for a DVR device. I guess overheating is not a problem? I don't see any vents.
- mikecane 14y agoHeat generation + cardboard = fire hazard? EDIT: Would that ever get a UL seal? I wonder!
- smackay 14y agoEveryone who is moderately well read knows this is not a problem, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature
- azar1 14y agoCase is "Recycled pressed cardboard with high-grade aluminum", so I'm guessing the paper is just on the outside of the real case.
- freehunter 14y agoCardboard's ignition point is above 400C. Computer components don't do well running above 80C. Something would have to go horribly wrong for a computer to ignite cardboard. Cardboard just seems easy to ignite because it's commonly burned with a butane lighter that burns at over 400C as well.
- joezydeco 14y agoI've got an i.MX6Q bare board running next to me. It's beefier than this book PC (quad A9s instead of one). It has no heatsink and gets only slightly warm to the touch after running it hard for a while. If any excess heat is generated by this thing, that aluminum backplate can probably sink it. As for UL certification, this thing is low-voltage DC only. The power brick should be certified but that's probably all that's needed. And FCC class-B like usual.
- justincormack 14y agoWhat is the performance of that like? Wondering about getting one. I have the imx5.
- joezydeco 14y ago
- yeureka 14y agoThere are quite a lot of Android based desktop computers available, some with better specs and cheaper than the VIA offering. Just google for "Android USB Mini PC". This could be a potential problem for Microsoft.
- lucian1900 14y agoI find it odd that there are so many desktop-ish things based on Android instead of Ubuntu. One would get a lot more software and a much more familiar experience with Ubuntu.
- tbirdz 14y agoYou might be able to run raspbian on it, as it seems this device has the same core as the raspberry pi.
- damian2000 14y agoThis public library installed Raspbian on it and uses it as a catalogue terminal... http://apc.io/blog/2012/11/26/white-plains-public-library-creates-opac-terminal-based-on-apc/ http://apc.io/blog/2012/11/26/white-plains-public-library-cr...
- graue 14y agoNice! Just want to point out, this seems to be referring to the original APC, which is now called APC 8750, not the Paper. (They mention getting a case for it, while the Paper is new and comes in a case.) http://apc.io/products/8750a/ http://apc.io/products/8750a/
- brudgers 14y agoGiven the frequency with which Ubuntu pushes updates (every couple of days it seems) and that handling these updates requires an administrative password, I can see sound user experience concerns which Android would better address.
- PommeDeTerre 14y agoDoes that just mean that the system that's running Android is not receiving critical updates, however?
- 14y ago
- lucaspiller 14y agoYou can already order what looks to be the baseboard without the case: http://apc.io/products/rock/ http://apc.io/products/rock/ $20 cheaper, and a VGA port :D
- wulczer 14y agoSo disappointed when I went to http://apc.io/products/scissors/ http://apc.io/products/scissors/ and got a 404 :(
- arocks 14y agoCan we stop calling something a PC until it comes with a proper input and output device? Let's just call it a CPU, if that is a more accurate term here. Also wondering if we connect a screen, a USB keyboard and power supply, will it still "blend into the office environment"?
- jiggy2011 14y agoIt has USB2 and HDMI ports so you can connect input and output peripherals, the same as the PC under my desk. It's just smaller. There's much more than just a CPU inside the case.
- brudgers 14y ago"PC" is more technically accurate than "CPU". On the other hand, in common nontechnical usage, "CPU" may be a better descriptive term than "PC".
- QuiteSeriousGuy 14y agoWell, I wouldn't call it a PC or a CPU or a Mac... System Unit seems appropriate.
- bitwize 14y agoWhat about "computer"?
- 89a 14y agohttp://apc.io/media/apc/img/products-slide1.jpg?1358433147746 http://apc.io/media/apc/img/products-slide1.jpg?135843314774...
- qntmfred 14y agoa CPU is a processor. if you don't like calling it a PC, just call it a computer.
- jameswyse 14y agoLooks like it'll make a nice XBMC box!
- facorreia 14y agoCortex-A9 @800Mhz, 512MB Memory, 4GB NAND Flash, not yet available. For $50-$60 you can already buy an Android mini-PC with double capacity in each of these specs. For instance: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MK809-II-Android-4-1-Mini-PC-HDMI-Stick-Rockchip-RK3066-1-6GHz-Cortex-A9-Dual/722503926.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MK809-II-Android-4-1-Mini-PC-...
- ZeroGravitas 14y agoThey sell the innards without the book-case as "rock", which is $80 dollars, available now, and also add VGA out.
- marekmroz 14y agoWhat is next, "scissors" - a solder-it-yourself kit?
- limmeau 14y agoAccording to http://apc.io/specifications/ http://apc.io/specifications/, the third product is called "8750", which somewhat damages the pun. But seeing that the Paper has an accessible JTAG port, they could really sell a JTAG adapter under the "Scissors" name.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Tloewald 14y agoBut still no wifi.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- StavrosK 14y agoAre there any good computers like that available with an A15? I might pick one up for the tinker factor alone.
- transitionality 14y agoThis is a non-starter. You can get much more powerful machines for cheaper.
- damian2000 14y agoI don't think they're targeting people who want or need powerful CPUs
- transitionality 14y agoI'm talking about full ARM systems -- the exact same product category for the exact same target demographic.
- mindstab 14y agoUbuntu/Unity (and Gnome shell) are doing all the wrong things and this shows it. Ubuntu especially are now focusing on blingy desktops that somehow require really new cards and hardware only, and yet are also trying to throw away the traditional desktop to cram themselves onto a phone. And yet with high end requirements they are now not the desktop OS of the light weight / poor hardware people, they are for the high end only paradoxically. Android is coming the other way: a good core set of features now slowly building out into a potential desktop replacement. Because the desktop is still important, especially for anyone looking to do any productivity work. And after watching a fast demo on the site, I see another thing Android is doing right. Somehow even though it's incredibly low resource it has animated desktops. I was first exposed to the idea in the mid 2000s with a video demoing Enlightenment 17 showing animated desktops. I even made a bug with Gnome asking for the feature. No dice. Even with all their modern "bling" and high and hardware requirements, they can't do live wallpapers/desktops. So with a lame static desktop, try running them on this hardware? EXPLDOE. Won't work. Meanwhile light little android also has this cute feature. And this really just underscores to me that in all ways Ubuntu/Unity/Gnome shell are just going in all the wrong directions while Android seems to be increasingly going in many of the right ones.
- dhruvmittal 14y agoHonestly, I think the only thing keeping me from using Android as more of a desktop replacement is the lack of solid local compilers. That, and a handful of more specialized desktop applications like MatLab (which run just as well on my lab computers- I probably don't need to carry them around), are the only reasons I can't just make the jump.
- mindstab 14y agoMe as well, at least for a netbook replacement. Though to some extent possibly putting a debian chroot onto an SD card might almost be enough. There are a few different attempts to start putting dev environments onto android (and then there's also the ipad as a devtool "buy a linode and ssh to it" method...) but yeah, sadly even on some devices that means cracking/rooting them just to be able to properly chroot, but with that you'd at least have all the compilers you want and vim and/or emacs :P Then we could start looking at bootstrapping more tools I suppose
- limpangel 14y agoWhy would you pay 99$ for this? You can have the ODROID-U2 for just 89$, which is better (performance wise) and supports Ubuntu 12.10 and Android 4. http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.ph...
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ansible 14y agoYeah, the thing that would prevent me from buying that "book" is the limited RAM. It is easy to expand storage, but only having .5GB on-board RAM is not ideal, especially for something that is going to be a desktop replacement.
- vamur 14y agoAnother fail from VIA after their earlier Android PC, which was derided on their forums for being too slow. There are tons of mini pcs now available with double the specs of the VIA pc and up to 2x lower price. Some even have 2GB RAM and can run Ubuntu with hardware acceleration.
- zokier 14y ago> can run Ubuntu with hardware acceleration. Interesting. With or without blobs?
- pm90 14y agoCan you provide some links to these vendors please? Genuinely curious
- vamur 14y agoMost of vendors are on aliexpress. For hardware acceleration only GK802 has it currently. You can purchase it from this thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2044045 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2044045 If you don't need hardware acceleration there is an Ubuntu version for UG802 and MK808 - code.google.com/p/rk3066-linux/wiki/PicUntu.
- Strshps1MoreTim 14y agoIs there an Ubuntu stick that will support 2560x1440 resolution?
- dade_ 14y agoI recently purchased an APC 8750, and I found that it is very good quality hardware. It worked out of the box, and the community forum answered most of my questions. Overall, the web browsing performance and UI has too many problems to be usable as a PC. I bought it to explore using Android as a platform for IOT and other such projects and unfortunately, it fell down here as well because it has no GPIO interface to drive other hardware including LEDs, LCD displays, sensors, IR devices, motors, etc. Further, Google did a great job of addressing this requirement with Android by releasing the ADK of 2011 which provides built in integration with Arduino via a USB ADB interface, but the ADK requires Android 3.1 or higher. Looking at the Paper's new faster performance, the addition of GPIOs, and Android 4.0, and an optional case, it is clear that VIA has been listening to user feedback. They certainly delivered on my wishlist. In the end the 8750 was a $65 lesson on how far Android has come in such a short period of time. Android applications are excellent, so while I see plenty of complaints about what it doesn't have, it is certainly getting the developer attention necessary for applications that can / will replace productivity applications on Windows machines. For the 80%, the desktop is nearly dead. Further, Android is a great platform for embedded applications, and it looks like APC has delivered an inexpensive platform for the maker / hacker community. Though a direct comparison to RPi is unfair, an APC comes with a power supply and 4GB of flash, so I consider a Raspberry Pi to actually cost $75: $45 (Actual street price of a Pi) $15 Memory Card $15 for a decent USB power supply (a low quality PS causes many of the RPi stability and Ext4 corruption issues I have seen on forums). (Also, Android is preloaded, so it is a much lower effort to get running.) And the comment about fire made me laugh. The CPU of the 8750 might have reached 40 degrees under very heavy load and the power supply is external, so cardboard certainly won't be an issue. I thought it was funny because I actually use the cardboard box the 8750 comes in because it is virtually impossible to find a Neo-ITX case for the board. Hope that provides some insight. I am glad to see VIA remains committed to this project.
- mr_luc 14y agoNote that the Raspbian OS runs on the APC as well.
- protomyth 14y agoI hope that this is the restart of the under $200 PC era. I also hope that young boys and girls are provided real tools to program these things out of the box. Thinking about it, a new version of BASIC might not be such a bad thing, but that might just be nostalgia for my Atari 400 8-bit BASIC cartridge.
- scarecrowbob 14y agoI dunno if there's a need for basic when there is so much easy functionality other places. When I started in the 80s, it was on my Commadore 64 and interesting to use, and a lot more straightforward than pascal or c when I was 10. But there are a lot of good tools without creating anything new. IMO, the real places for improvement are learning methods. My own idea has been to get my boy to start learning javascript via codecademy. We're seeing how that goes. He's 11 and more interested in minecraft (which, IMO, has a similar set of activities such as wikis and researching via message boards as my own day-to-day why-doesn't-this-work programming issues), but we'll see how this goes. The other thing that I did was to put together a desktop from parts with him over the holidays, which was a bit more fun than our usual yearly giant lego build, and I hope will give him an idea that these machines aren't magic-- they are put together, even if I don't have the skills to convey that at the circuit level.
- a1k0n 14y agoPerhaps computercraft would be a better gateway drug then?
- protomyth 14y ago"The other thing that I did was to put together a desktop from parts with him over the holidays, which was a bit more fun than our usual yearly giant lego build, and I hope will give him an idea that these machines aren't magic-- they are put together, even if I don't have the skills to convey that at the circuit level." How much did it cost to build? I would wager it was more than $200. To put together a PC is beyond a lot of parents skill.
- joezydeco 14y ago
- tuananh 14y agopower consumption is what got me into this kind of thing. I donot expect a good browsing experience nor gaming on this kind of stuff. please quit ranting about the spec.
- mark-r 14y agoInteresting aesthetic, but there's no way it won't look out of place with all the wires sticking out of it. And I think I'd want something more durable than cardboard for the case.
- happycube 14y agoIt looks good, but knowing VIA, it's not a question of if they screwed something up, but where.
- frozenport 14y agoWhat if you spill on it? Does the case stain?
- BHSPitMonkey 14y agoSeems a little short-sighted to only feature 2 USB ports. If you have one of these set up with a keyboard and mouse and you wish to use a flash or external drive, you'll have to temporarily sacrifice an input device or use a hub. Surely they could have squeezed in one or two more without too much of a cost increase.
- gojomo 14y agoWow, that'd be really nice for hiding in a campus network closet, to surreptitiously download things using a University IP address.