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Kid Sends Blunt Cover Letter and Now People are Trying to Hire Him
- jiggy2011 14y agoWell, he has demonstrated: Integrity , reasonably strong written skills , some balls and of course "thinking outside the box".
- vignesh_vs_in 14y agoOdd ones always get the attention of onlookers. The letter is honest and straight forward, which itself is enough to get the attention of the readers. Just today i read one of my colleague's recommendation letter for Masters graduate Program. The letter was full of team player, hard worker bullshit :). (I later suggested her to add in some actual evidence to support her claims)
- hnriot 14y ago...but not the ability to work a spell checker.
- rm999 14y ago>I wouldn't be surprised if this guy gets at least a call from every bank out there I think that's funny. My brother works in finance, and I work in engineering. We both interview candidates and we were discussing our approaches recently. What struck us is how different our approaches are. A few key differences: * In general, his approach is based more on intuition, whereas mine is very objective. We both spend a lot of effort determining 'fit', but my technical requirements are far more specific. * Education matters a lot more to my brother. He has HR throw out resumes that aren't from an ivy or aren't from a top 7 business school. I filter far less aggressively, somewhere around the top 50-100 school mark. We both filter on GPA about the same. * He likes it when people put their extracurricular activities on their resume, for me it can't help you but could be a negative. Basically, my brother wants smart, hard-working, interesting people. I want someone who does a high quality job, doesn't need hand-holding to get up to speed, and is not a jerk to other people in the company. The guy's cover letter wouldn't impress me much, but my brother would probably love it.
- jiggy2011 14y agoI'm interested in what you say about extracurricular activities. I can certainly agree that in most cases they are a waste of space "I like music, movies and videogames". Surely though there would be some extracurriculars that might impress you? Contributions to a high profile open source projects , doing something that requires good organisation/people skills or just something that might tell you a bit about the person's personality? What sort of extracurriculars would you consider to be negative?
- philwelch 14y agoIf you're applying for a dev job and you mention open source, that's not entirely extracurricular the same way playing in a bowling league might be.
- rm999 14y agoYeah, I should have been clearer, I mean activities that aren't relevant to the job - working on an open source project would be relevant to me. But you are right that some things could be positives, like a leadership position in an honor society. "Snowboarding" would be neutral, whereas my brother says he considers it a positive (we both enjoy snowboarding/skiing). "President of the campus <insert political party here>" would be a negative for me, regardless of the political affiliation. My brother said he could see it as a positive or a negative, probably depending on the affiliation.
- K2h 14y agoI am in the process of hiring engineers and the last candidate that caught my eye, listed some pretty cool side projects outside of his core area of expertise. Learning of this made me consider: breadth of knowledge, interdisciplinary team structures, and understanding other aspects to design and review, overall - an interesting nerd/geek. Going to movies, exercising, travel - those should be left off of resumes coming to me. Building electric cars, embedded firmware design, realtime control - those hobbies get me to notice you - especially when they are outside your discipline.
- mindcrime 14y ago
- beachhouse 14y agoIt's funny to think that more people don't use this strategy. He starts with some sort of connection to the email recipient, says how he's willing to do anything, discredits the peacocking majority (and then peacocks himself), etc. This is the same thought process used in sales and marketing and even pickup.
- guylhem 14y agoHonnesty pays. What else to say - this kids has more than most people.
- Ecio78 14y agoi'll play the devil's advocate role, not that I really believe what i'll write: unfortunately we don't rellay know if he's really honest, or just playing a role.. * what if he hasn't really met the recipient of the mail? (it could be just a way to connect with him, maybe he meets so many kids, he wont remember me) * what if he hasnt really interned for ML? (will somebody check?) * are we sure he's really waiting for admission to MSc in Accountancy? etc..
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- aresant 14y agoI am not surprised that a cover letter full of humility and honest self-appraisal has shocked Wall Street HR teams to the point of becoming a featured article on Yahoo.
- mnicole 14y agoYeah, I'm confused as to why this was so shocking to the point where it was circulated and warranted a blog post. I've written equally as innocent "just looking to be around talented folks even if it means.." cover letters to companies I respected. In fact, that's what a lot of the design agencies I've worked for got the most of.
- chromaticorb 14y agomaybe it really, really is that rare to these guys
- recoiledsnake 14y agoI am even more confused why this is on top of HN receiving so many votes in the past hour. Is the email really that unique? It seems pretty standard to me and even looks like boilerplate from one of those "how to write a cover letter for internships" articles out there.
- JonnieCache 14y agoI suspect that a large chunk of HN's lurkers are thwarted engineers, who got recruited out of college by IBs and are trapped in the world of finance by their bloated compensation packages, now living the carefree life of the programmer vicariously by hanging around here.
- antiterra 14y agoNot sure which carefree life of the programmer you're talking about -- do you mean the one where you work at a startup, constantly aware of the risk of showing up to a locked door from mass layoffs, expected to work crazy hours out of devotion and loyalty, loaded with stock options that will likely be worthless, even if the company gets purchased on its way out? PS Good choice on editing that last line out.
- run4yourlives 14y agoWait a second... this guy sent a letter to a firm looking for employment and had it along with his personal details paraded around - what looks to be - the industry? How is that not a serious violation of privacy? I'm pretty sure this would violate even the most basic privacy statement. I highly doubt they asked the submitter if they would enjoy being emailed to the industry. In Canada or the EU you'd be violating Government legislation too. Hope it works out for him, but this just goes to show how little Wall Street thinks of people outside of their own circle. If I were a high up in Morgan Stanley (it's the only company name not blacked out) I'd be pissed.
- TWAndrews 14y agoYeah, if I were looking for an internship, I'd hate to have my cover letter and resume circulated on personal emails where it's sure to be read closely.
- run4yourlives 14y agoPoint is that nobody asked him. Would you prefer that I "assume" you might be interested in buying something from my close advisor and pass on your name and address to him as well if you buy something from me?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- cbs 14y agoYeah, if I were looking for an internship, I'd hate to have my cover letter and resume circulated on personal emails where it's sure to be read closely. Exactly, in this specific case it is a net positive! That's plenty of reason to ignore the implications of the underlying behavior.
- jamii 14y agoIt even says at the bottom "This email is confidential..."
- 14y ago
- eli 14y agoThis isn't a good resume because it's blunt, it's good because he describes himself as basically exactly what you would want in an intern. "I'm looking to pad out my resume for a few months until my dad can score me a cushy job at his firm" is also an honest, blunt thing to say in a cover letter... but I doubt it works as well.
- notahacker 14y agoThat's the other thing that's critical: he's being blunt because he knows that he has just enough to make him actually a fit for the job on paper. I bet plenty of blunt begging letters from people that don't have an internship from Merrill Lynch or a "near perfect GPA" get even less consideration than the majority of candidates that don't realise their internship and captaincy of the lacrosse team actually doesn't make them stand out from the other candidates from better schools. "My grades suck as much as my school's reputation but I don't mind toadying to be a really well paid barista" would go in the bin too
- vsbuffalo 14y agoBrace yourselves for copycats.
- codegeek 14y agoexcept the copycats should ensure they have something substantial to show. In this casem, the guy had a near perfect GPA (whatever that number is)
- justjimmy 14y agoThis is a gem, considering what's out there atm. I've heard interns work their way into the big 4 and then squander it - they expect to be in charge of cases, call the shots, and some even refuse to come in when called - "I'm watching a movie." IB isn't like fashion industry where interns are usually delegated mundane tasks like fetching coffee, but it's good to see this guy willing to doing w/e it takes.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- BklynJay 14y agoOne of the comments: "It's funny that all these guys loved the letter, yet didn't realize it's their fault that the letter even had to be written. If only they hadn't been falling for trumped up resumes and bogus cover letters for years."
- creativename 14y agoI think in this and many other industries, people that are otherwise talented and intelligent individuals write these types of "trumped up" resumes only because they know that everyone else is doing it. If they don't also exaggerate the truth and try to talk up their strengths, then they fear being overlooked. It's not necessarily that anyone is being "fooled" by the exaggerated resumes, it just means that everyone sounds the same and it's just a game that both parties are forced to play. It's hard to distinguish on a cover letter whether "led a team of..." means one other person or twenty other people, for instance.
- quomopete 14y agowho's this kids uncle?
- OGinparadise 14y agoHis odds were close to zero with a "me too" resume, so he risked it all. A lot of Wall Street companies want Ivy League caliber and a GPA of 3.5+ as a starting point--or to have your case considered. Now I'd say, his resume will be read and he will be judged on his merits.
- betelnut 14y agoI wouldn't say it's a great cover letter - it's pretty generic and could easily be tweaked slightly for any job/industry. Also it's sort of sad that he has to debase his university and himself for the lords of finance to consider him.
- codegeek 14y ago"could easily be tweaked slightly for any job/industry." I disagree. This can work well for an intern position because whatever this guy wrote in the email, is a greaet pitch to be an intern. But if I am looking for a specialist in a particular niche/industry, at best I would be impressed by such email but will not hire him just because he talks straight.
- tedchs 14y agoIn my opinion, the best thing this guy shows is competent business writing skills, which is a strong predictor of the ability to learn whatever field an intern will be joining.
- betelnut 14y agoYou're right, I should be more clear. What I meant by that is that there's no clear explicit reason why he's interested in investment banking rather than marketing, consulting, publishing, advertising, whathaveyou.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- peterjmag 14y agoAfter reading the responses, I'm really glad I'm not in finance. "Hilarious but bold"? "Best cover letter I've ever received"? It's good, but it's not exactly groundbreaking. For tech startups, I feel like this kind of thing is almost required if you want to get anywhere. If I'm reading cover letters, I want to see some personality, and yes, I want you to be honest. Have some fun with it, even. Is that really such a novel concept? Or is my perspective just skewed by the startup world?
- mvkel 14y agoAgreed! I've been on the receiving end of cover letters like this and while I appreciated the honesty, it wasn't exactly intriguing.
- icedchai 14y agoWell, to be fair, honesty is probably something pretty unusual on Wall St.
- mvkel 14y agoNo offense, but I think that's a pretty typical (and boring) statement that is probably less true than it is on "main street." Wall Street trading firms have to adhere to some pretty stringent SEC regulations; regulations no other private company has to deal with. That inherently means they're required to disclose more than the average "Main St." company. We all like to cite the bad apples (aka the exceptions), but by in large financial firms are as "by the book" as you can get. So no, I wouldn't say it's unusual.
- icedchai 14y agoActually, I'll just broaden it: honesty in business is pretty unusual, especially big business. Are you happy?
- djhworld 14y agoThis is cute, but in reality it highlights everything that is wrong with the system and the financial sector.
- mindslight 14y agoOne of the responses, fourth from the bottom: > Not sure if either of you guys are still looking for a lackey to build models and fetch coffee, but this kid could be worth a conversation Does "build models" mean what I think it does - actually coming up with the mathematical method that projects risk, return, etc ? And if so, is the author being sarcastic, or do they really consider this to be unimportant work best passed off to an intern ?
- wting 14y agoNo, the models are already built. However they need someone to comb through a company's financial records and plug the appropriate numbers into an Excel spreadsheet. It's a glorified data entry position, but interns will gain knowledge and experience.
- waylandsmithers 14y agoUsually doing some sort of number crunching to figure out which deals might make sense, eg. Company A and Company B should merge because of X, Y and Z. Then pass that information to the higher ups (rain makers, big swinging dicks, and what have you) who have the contacts and experience to bring the business in and get the deal done.
- austenallred 14y ago"People are trying to hire him" seems like a bit of a stretch based on the article. I see a lot of "Haha, I might even give him a call," but no, "I want to hire this kid!"
- nathell 14y agoI'm wondering if it's possible to determine the authorship of the letter as well as the identity of several people mentioned, based on the pixel widths of characters in the font used.
- lefstathiou 14y agoHe wants to work for a summer in finance (sounds like a trading floor rather than the investment bank), is mastering in accounting and taking the LSAT to go to law school... Sounds focused. I can think of more direct paths into corporate law...
- devth 14y agoI was expecting something more blunt. Pretty boring if you ask me.
- n3rdy 14y agoWell I certainly misjudged the articles title, this makes a lot more sense now. I guess the Phish crowd hasn't gone all business savvy after-all.
- ryguytilidie 14y agoRecruiter here. If I knew we got upvotes for posting semi-interesting cover letters I would have a lot more karma :( Read probably 100 better than this in the last year alone.
- thoughtcriminal 14y agoA frank, honest letter shocks the financial world. No. doubt.
- tsmith 14y ago"Kid"? What is it about people that makes them think a person about to complete a degree and enter a Masters' program, and assumedly old enough to drive, vote, serve in the military, and reproduce, is a "kid"? George Washington was a major in the Virginia militia at 21. Nat Palmer was the first American to discover Antarctica at 21. Bill Gates was 21 when he founded Micro Soft. Steve Jobs was 21 when he founded Apple. People who call fully-grown adults "kids" can go stuff themselves.
- suyash 14y agoTo Future CopyCats: Please don't use the same cover letter for your internship job application. This guy kept it real, you do the same!
- sonabinu 14y agoNo everyone agrees to this approach ... http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2013/01/16/wall-street-bosses-are-calling-this-the-best-cover-letter-ever-but-not-everyone-agrees/# http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2013/01/16/wall-...