6 ms·

Why not ask for an investigation into her behaviour and its connection to the suicide instead? I have little sympathy for prosecutorial overreach , but it seem

Why not ask for an investigation into her behaviour and its connection to the suicide instead? I have little sympathy for prosecutorial overreach , but it seems somewhat ironic and counterproductive that she should face such harsh consequences without there being at least an attempt to establish the facts of the matter independent of the lynch mob that is now on her heels. If we allege that she used her position to bully someone, we should at least not fall into the same trap ourselves.

joelthelion 14y ago
I think everyone who signs the petition knows that the Obama administration won't fire her like this. This is mostly to send a message to her and other prosecutors, and to get the Obama administration to examine the problem and give a response.
- andrewvc 14y ago
  That's why I signed as well. The point is that firing should be on the table as the first option. The public needs a DAMN good reason not to fire this prosecutor. I think we're all well aware that she's probably not the worst prosecutor in the govt. I'm sure others have caused as much harm to those without the fame and network Aaron had. However, these are the people we entrust to uphold our laws, and we need to hold them accountable to justice, not their careers. Hopefully this is just the start.
darkchasma 14y ago
I think the point is to demand an internal investigation, and to ensure that destroying peoples lives in order to gain a metric for advancement will not be tolerated.
- technoslut 14y ago
  I don't believe it was the intent of the petition but it may be the end result. I saw a story on Techmeme yesterday where the husband of the attorney supposedly said a plea was offered of six months. I'm not sure if the story was true but, if it was, it would put the story in a different light.
  - olefoo 14y ago
    The intent of the petition was to put the idea that her behavior was questionable into the Presidents head. Most likely she's working with her crisis PR team to figure out how to get in front of the issue. Which would involve a complete housecleaning of the office in MA. See http://bluemassgroup.com/2013/01/its-bigger-than-carmen-ortiz-white-house-petition-should-ask-for-complete-investigation-of-bostons-us-attorneys-office/ http://bluemassgroup.com/2013/01/its-bigger-than-carmen-orti... As that article points out she is a political appointee and as such, is a legitimate focus for political outrage.
    - technoslut 14y ago
      You could be right. I don't know which was my point. There are many who want turn turn Aaron's death into a movement. I just want to get the story straight to know where I stand.
darkarmani 14y ago
> it seems somewhat ironic and counterproductive that she should face such harsh consequences Losing her job is a harsh consequence??
- tych0 14y ago
  When you're a US attorney, yes. It's not like there's some other federal government you can go work for. Her job market is not as liquid as ours.
  - Retric 14y ago
    Not so much, chances are she is taking a pay cut by working for the federal government.
    - tych0 14y ago
      Of course, but there are other reasons people work where they do besides money!
  - darkarmani 14y ago
    Seriously, you are equating job loss as a harsh consequence when she threatens 35 years of jail time to people?
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
  - mstefanko 14y ago
    I don't think it works that way, honestly. The majority of people at that level are so well off that they don't get hit that hard. They don't really get hit at all. They have a million opportunities after being let go. Even looking into someone like Nixon, where do you go from there. He received 2 millions to write his memoirs, was paid millions for interviews etc. I don't doubt it would drastically alter her career, at least from the path she was on. But she has a certain right to uphold a set of ethics, when prosecutors overstep their power, they are no more infallible than you or I. In that role, it's always on the table as a consequence. People keep referencing how she's one of the "good guys" without any real knowledge of her previous work. Her entire career may of been built on top of prosecutorial overreach. When you put away bad people, people don't care how you do it. She finally picked the wrong person to make an example of. But even if she's let go, believe me, she'll do just fine.
brudgers 14y ago
"Why not ask for an investigation" Lynch mobs have already done all the investigating that needs investigating. Those grieving Swartz's death have my sympathy. Those fanning their natural anger to vengeance do not.
- harryf 14y ago
  Looking at Carmen Ortiz's [track record](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz) of cases prosecuting involving corruption and organized crime, seems like this would be hurting one of the "good guys". No doubt she has enemies that must be gloating about the petition
  - toyg 14y ago
    Yeah, because the world is like a Batman comic, right? When "good guys" screw up, they must take the same responsibility they ask of "bad guys". When "good guys" resort to bully or torture weaker opponents, they are as bad as anyone.
    - harryf 14y ago
      Well my point was simply here is someone with a good reputation. Perhaps it's worth understanding exactly what took place crying for revenge.
      - mstefanko 14y ago
        I definitely agree with that notion. I think the problem we're facing is that the general public at this time knows most of what was going on. She's had a good reputation to this point. But she finally picked the wrong person to make an example of. Prosecutorial overreach is a funny thing. In that, her career may have been built on it. If the number of previous people we're actually bad people, the same tactics would of been far more accepted. Since this was a clear abuse of her power, even if it's something prosecutors generally get away with. The idea of making an example out of her seems vengeful and almost hypocritical. But it's not without its grounds.
catshirt 14y ago
i see the irony, but couldn't you argue that it is a fair lesson in proportionality?

joelthelion 14y ago

I think everyone who signs the petition knows that the Obama administration won't fire her like this. This is mostly to send a message to her and other prosecutors, and to get the Obama administration to examine the problem and give a response.

andrewvc 14y ago
That's why I signed as well. The point is that firing should be on the table as the first option. The public needs a DAMN good reason not to fire this prosecutor. I think we're all well aware that she's probably not the worst prosecutor in the govt. I'm sure others have caused as much harm to those without the fame and network Aaron had. However, these are the people we entrust to uphold our laws, and we need to hold them accountable to justice, not their careers. Hopefully this is just the start.

darkchasma 14y ago

I think the point is to demand an internal investigation, and to ensure that destroying peoples lives in order to gain a metric for advancement will not be tolerated.

technoslut 14y ago
I don't believe it was the intent of the petition but it may be the end result. I saw a story on Techmeme yesterday where the husband of the attorney supposedly said a plea was offered of six months. I'm not sure if the story was true but, if it was, it would put the story in a different light.
- olefoo 14y ago
  The intent of the petition was to put the idea that her behavior was questionable into the Presidents head. Most likely she's working with her crisis PR team to figure out how to get in front of the issue. Which would involve a complete housecleaning of the office in MA. See http://bluemassgroup.com/2013/01/its-bigger-than-carmen-ortiz-white-house-petition-should-ask-for-complete-investigation-of-bostons-us-attorneys-office/ http://bluemassgroup.com/2013/01/its-bigger-than-carmen-orti... As that article points out she is a political appointee and as such, is a legitimate focus for political outrage.
  - technoslut 14y ago
    You could be right. I don't know which was my point. There are many who want turn turn Aaron's death into a movement. I just want to get the story straight to know where I stand.

darkarmani 14y ago

> it seems somewhat ironic and counterproductive that she should face such harsh consequences Losing her job is a harsh consequence??

tych0 14y ago
When you're a US attorney, yes. It's not like there's some other federal government you can go work for. Her job market is not as liquid as ours.
- Retric 14y ago
  Not so much, chances are she is taking a pay cut by working for the federal government.
  - tych0 14y ago
    Of course, but there are other reasons people work where they do besides money!
- darkarmani 14y ago
  Seriously, you are equating job loss as a harsh consequence when she threatens 35 years of jail time to people?
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- mstefanko 14y ago
  I don't think it works that way, honestly. The majority of people at that level are so well off that they don't get hit that hard. They don't really get hit at all. They have a million opportunities after being let go. Even looking into someone like Nixon, where do you go from there. He received 2 millions to write his memoirs, was paid millions for interviews etc. I don't doubt it would drastically alter her career, at least from the path she was on. But she has a certain right to uphold a set of ethics, when prosecutors overstep their power, they are no more infallible than you or I. In that role, it's always on the table as a consequence. People keep referencing how she's one of the "good guys" without any real knowledge of her previous work. Her entire career may of been built on top of prosecutorial overreach. When you put away bad people, people don't care how you do it. She finally picked the wrong person to make an example of. But even if she's let go, believe me, she'll do just fine.

brudgers 14y ago

"Why not ask for an investigation" Lynch mobs have already done all the investigating that needs investigating. Those grieving Swartz's death have my sympathy. Those fanning their natural anger to vengeance do not.

harryf 14y ago
Looking at Carmen Ortiz's [track record](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz) of cases prosecuting involving corruption and organized crime, seems like this would be hurting one of the "good guys". No doubt she has enemies that must be gloating about the petition
- toyg 14y ago
  Yeah, because the world is like a Batman comic, right? When "good guys" screw up, they must take the same responsibility they ask of "bad guys". When "good guys" resort to bully or torture weaker opponents, they are as bad as anyone.
  - harryf 14y ago
    Well my point was simply here is someone with a good reputation. Perhaps it's worth understanding exactly what took place crying for revenge.
    - mstefanko 14y ago
      I definitely agree with that notion. I think the problem we're facing is that the general public at this time knows most of what was going on. She's had a good reputation to this point. But she finally picked the wrong person to make an example of. Prosecutorial overreach is a funny thing. In that, her career may have been built on it. If the number of previous people we're actually bad people, the same tactics would of been far more accepted. Since this was a clear abuse of her power, even if it's something prosecutors generally get away with. The idea of making an example out of her seems vengeful and almost hypocritical. But it's not without its grounds.

catshirt 14y ago

i see the irony, but couldn't you argue that it is a fair lesson in proportionality?