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That was actually a pretty fast response, considering the behemoth Java is and that the team is fractured since the acquisition. Things will get better, the web

That was actually a pretty fast response, considering the behemoth Java is and that the team is fractured since the acquisition. Things will get better, the websites are not even fully transitioned yet. Wish people would cut Oracle a little slack here, although they really need to improve the Java update process. They could and should learn something from Flash (as depressing as that is to say!)

pekk 14y ago
I can cut Oracle some slack when black hats can cut me some slack.
dnu 14y ago
Well, I see that they offer to "Install the Ask toolbar" by default. I don't remember Sun doing this. http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/ask_toolbar.xml http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/ask_toolbar.xml
- frendiversity 14y ago
  This I am genuinely annoyed with. I am going to start a petition to Oracle for these points, the Java community is extremely large and valuable and it's a disgrace to treat the platform this way.
  - frendiversity 14y ago
    I am doing some research, apparently this is only for the online JRE install, and it's been there since 2011. Sun JRE install once peddled OpenOffice and Google Toolbar, but at least OO is better than Ask. Ugh. They need to get rid of this, it's an embarrassment.
    - mhurron 14y ago
      I got a McAfee something or other offer bundled with the installer. I don't know why Sun and Oracle did this, it gives the installer the look of shady shareware shit.
      - jerrya 14y ago
        Yeah, I clicked okay on McAfee Installation, and he showed up 45 minutes later, with a teenage hooker and a ton of drugs. He had good booze, but otherwise, sort of an asswipe. Sent the girl home with a police matron.
  - tsotha 14y ago
    One of the reasons Sun was gobbled up by Oracle is they could never figure out how to monetize their "extremely large and valuable" Java community. I don't like the toolbar spam any more than you, but Oracle doesn't have an obligation to provide a money-losing product.
    - frendiversity 14y ago
      Easy, write a mobile operating system that uses Java for all the apps- then license that to hardware OEMs until you've got a stranglehold on mobile OS, like the Microsoft model on desktop. I am saddened that Google didn't buy Sun. Maybe they'll buy Oracle and the optical barrier over the valley will dissolve and reveal it is actually a portal into Hell.
gojomo 14y ago
The acquisition officially completed almost 3 years ago. Oracle had plenty of time and money to sue Google in the meantime. They are not poor and can do things quickly and competently when they want to; their customers and other Java users shouldn't have to "cut them a little slack" on such bugs.
- frendiversity 14y ago
  I won't cut them slack on their update process, they should have improved that by now. I don't think being poor or not matters, Java is a gigantic codebase and throwing money at a team doesn't make them code more efficiently. They are doing moderately well at transitioning. I believe Google ripped Java off hard, and I believe both the ripping off Java and the suing for it were bad moves. Google should have licensed or bought Java and Oracle should have sold it or open-sourced it. This is why corporate-owned languages are bad, and why Dalvik isn't really any better in the long run. The best thing, perhaps, would be if HotSpot and OpenJDK were completely community driven all the way down to the release/update/install process, the way IcedTea is.
ghshephard 14y ago
Ironically you have just named the two plugins that have been disabled in my mainstream browser for over a year. Both of those plugins are examples of what not to do with regards to security, and the first thing I do with new users is train them to surf the web with them off, and switch to a different browser than their main one if they specifically need that functionality. I.e. browse the web with safari (all plugins/java disabled), switch to chrome to watch flash videos (and pray that their sandbox protects you) and switch to Firefox to run your corporate java plugin VPN. Ideally java/flash plugins will die quickly, and we can replace them with browser native technology that we can hold the browser manufacturers accountable for.
- frendiversity 14y ago
  Browser native functionality wouldn't be cross-platform or even standardized between browsers. What we really need is some kind of native virtual machine that can run cross-platform bytecode in the browser. Someone should make a plugin for this that works with all browsers, it would be genius! </sarcasm>
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - chii 14y ago
    while you might be sarcastic, this actually does exist: http://jsjvm.org/ http://jsjvm.org/
    - frendiversity 14y ago
      The sarcasm was more referring to the fact that Java (and to some extent Flash with Alchemy VM stuff) is already the best solution for cross-platform native sandboxing in the browser. (If Oracle improves on the updates, that is, and I'm sure they will, they've got a lot on the roadmap for Java.) This is a neat idea though!
      - drivebyacct2 14y ago

pekk 14y ago

I can cut Oracle some slack when black hats can cut me some slack.

dnu 14y ago

Well, I see that they offer to "Install the Ask toolbar" by default. I don't remember Sun doing this. http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/ask_toolbar.xml http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/ask_toolbar.xml

frendiversity 14y ago
This I am genuinely annoyed with. I am going to start a petition to Oracle for these points, the Java community is extremely large and valuable and it's a disgrace to treat the platform this way.
- frendiversity 14y ago
  I am doing some research, apparently this is only for the online JRE install, and it's been there since 2011. Sun JRE install once peddled OpenOffice and Google Toolbar, but at least OO is better than Ask. Ugh. They need to get rid of this, it's an embarrassment.
  - mhurron 14y ago
    I got a McAfee something or other offer bundled with the installer. I don't know why Sun and Oracle did this, it gives the installer the look of shady shareware shit.
    - jerrya 14y ago
      Yeah, I clicked okay on McAfee Installation, and he showed up 45 minutes later, with a teenage hooker and a ton of drugs. He had good booze, but otherwise, sort of an asswipe. Sent the girl home with a police matron.
- tsotha 14y ago
  One of the reasons Sun was gobbled up by Oracle is they could never figure out how to monetize their "extremely large and valuable" Java community. I don't like the toolbar spam any more than you, but Oracle doesn't have an obligation to provide a money-losing product.
  - frendiversity 14y ago
    Easy, write a mobile operating system that uses Java for all the apps- then license that to hardware OEMs until you've got a stranglehold on mobile OS, like the Microsoft model on desktop. I am saddened that Google didn't buy Sun. Maybe they'll buy Oracle and the optical barrier over the valley will dissolve and reveal it is actually a portal into Hell.

gojomo 14y ago

The acquisition officially completed almost 3 years ago. Oracle had plenty of time and money to sue Google in the meantime. They are not poor and can do things quickly and competently when they want to; their customers and other Java users shouldn't have to "cut them a little slack" on such bugs.

frendiversity 14y ago
I won't cut them slack on their update process, they should have improved that by now. I don't think being poor or not matters, Java is a gigantic codebase and throwing money at a team doesn't make them code more efficiently. They are doing moderately well at transitioning. I believe Google ripped Java off hard, and I believe both the ripping off Java and the suing for it were bad moves. Google should have licensed or bought Java and Oracle should have sold it or open-sourced it. This is why corporate-owned languages are bad, and why Dalvik isn't really any better in the long run. The best thing, perhaps, would be if HotSpot and OpenJDK were completely community driven all the way down to the release/update/install process, the way IcedTea is.

ghshephard 14y ago

Ironically you have just named the two plugins that have been disabled in my mainstream browser for over a year. Both of those plugins are examples of what not to do with regards to security, and the first thing I do with new users is train them to surf the web with them off, and switch to a different browser than their main one if they specifically need that functionality. I.e. browse the web with safari (all plugins/java disabled), switch to chrome to watch flash videos (and pray that their sandbox protects you) and switch to Firefox to run your corporate java plugin VPN. Ideally java/flash plugins will die quickly, and we can replace them with browser native technology that we can hold the browser manufacturers accountable for.

frendiversity 14y ago
Browser native functionality wouldn't be cross-platform or even standardized between browsers. What we really need is some kind of native virtual machine that can run cross-platform bytecode in the browser. Someone should make a plugin for this that works with all browsers, it would be genius! </sarcasm>
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- chii 14y ago
  while you might be sarcastic, this actually does exist: http://jsjvm.org/ http://jsjvm.org/
  - frendiversity 14y ago
    The sarcasm was more referring to the fact that Java (and to some extent Flash with Alchemy VM stuff) is already the best solution for cross-platform native sandboxing in the browser. (If Oracle improves on the updates, that is, and I'm sure they will, they've got a lot on the roadmap for Java.) This is a neat idea though!
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago