6 ms·

I grew up in a household with harsh winters and coal as the only heating source. As such I can state, that coal is a pretty inconvenient heat source. You have t

by FrojoS 14y ago

I grew up in a household with harsh winters and coal as the only heating source. As such I can state, that coal is a pretty inconvenient heat source. You have to carrie all the coal you burn from the basement, it requires time to start up, needs permanent oversight and it's almost impossible to adjust the heat to the exact level you want. So my hope is that, as China becomes wealthier, they will abolish coal as a heating source, just for convenience.

ChrisClark 14y ago
It's a little more convenient in at least most of the cities in China. There are coal burning plants every so often in the city, they heat up the water and pipe it through to the nearby apartment buildings. So the average citizen doesn't have to handle the coal. Of course, this means you don't get to control your heat, and it never heats up that much, just keeps you from freezing. And if winter comes early, you still have to wait for November 15 for when the heat gets turned on.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  I live in a newish apartment building with good insulation. I always have to open a window because it gets so hot (after the turn on date of course, which was early this year). Think of the poor college students in southern china who don't have heat at all in their dorms (the government, in their wisdom, said heat isn't needed south of the Yangtze). Every year more than a few of them die in fires using some haphazard electrical device to try and stay warm.
- jfoutz 14y ago
  NYC is about as first world as it gets, and they still use the steam system from the 1800's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
  - staticfish 14y ago
    I'm sorry, but NYC isn't about as "first world is it gets". From the power, to the plumbing, to the buildings and sewers, and even city-scaping, it's decidedly antiquated compared to many Western Eurpean and Asian countries.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  Why doesn't it heats up much? Is this specific to China? I live in Russia, we have the same system (coal and gas plants generating not only electricity but heat for homes) and this system is perfectly capable of delivering +28C inside when it's -30C outside. It varies from house to house, but "keeps you from freezing" is not the default.
  - dmor 14y ago
    My guess, from the houses I went into, is their construction. I have to emphasize these are not houses like any first-world person would think of, as soon as you leave the big city there is very little that is modern about China - they're hapharzardly made with found objects, mud that has been packed and dried, thick layers of grasses woven and turned into sheets of ceiling tiles. Everything is handmade, and I have to imagine they are constantly searching for sources of heat loss and patching them. A lot of people also were burning dried animal waste, which was the worst smelling thing I can imagine enduring 24/7. I would be willing to bet if you are really poor you are also getting third rate coal, with lots of fillers that reduce its caloric output of heat (and it is cheaper).
    - guard-of-terra 14y ago
      I doubt they have central heating in hand made houses. It's usually limited to apartment blocks in cities.
      - dmor 14y ago
        Right, they have a coal stove in the room heating the space.
- graue 14y ago
  > if winter comes early, you still have to wait for November 15 for when the heat gets turned on. This happens in the first world, too. In Minneapolis (where I currently live) landlords are, on paper, required to provide at least 68°F starting October 1st. In my experience they turn on the heat a week or two after that, whenever they get around to it, basically. You have nothing for the cold late-September days. You don't control your heat in multifamily buildings, and sometimes it's more like 60° or below and you have to nag the landlord for a week to turn it up. There was a week right around Christmas where I could practically see my breath. I imagine you can buy your way out of this by paying (a lot) more to rent a nicer, more modern place, but for many, of course, that's not an option.
  - cbr 14y ago
    I don't know about Minneapolis, but in MA you can withhold rent if the landlord isn't meeting their obligations. (Downside is making the landlord-tenant relationship more adversarial.)
    - graue 14y ago
      Yup, MN has that, but the more you complain and fight with a landlord, the more likely they nail you on some technicality, and there goes $100+ of your security deposit on move-out. Then, even if their claim is clearly bogus, a court victory's far from assured and the filing fee would be almost as great as the amount you lost. Maybe I've just been unlucky but the housing law story in MN seems extremely unfavorable to tenants. Washington, DC was much better. I heard it has tenant-friendly laws but I never had to test that.

by FrojoS 14y ago

ChrisClark 14y ago

It's a little more convenient in at least most of the cities in China. There are coal burning plants every so often in the city, they heat up the water and pipe it through to the nearby apartment buildings. So the average citizen doesn't have to handle the coal. Of course, this means you don't get to control your heat, and it never heats up that much, just keeps you from freezing. And if winter comes early, you still have to wait for November 15 for when the heat gets turned on.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
I live in a newish apartment building with good insulation. I always have to open a window because it gets so hot (after the turn on date of course, which was early this year). Think of the poor college students in southern china who don't have heat at all in their dorms (the government, in their wisdom, said heat isn't needed south of the Yangtze). Every year more than a few of them die in fires using some haphazard electrical device to try and stay warm.
jfoutz 14y ago
NYC is about as first world as it gets, and they still use the steam system from the 1800's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
- staticfish 14y ago
  I'm sorry, but NYC isn't about as "first world is it gets". From the power, to the plumbing, to the buildings and sewers, and even city-scaping, it's decidedly antiquated compared to many Western Eurpean and Asian countries.
guard-of-terra 14y ago
Why doesn't it heats up much? Is this specific to China? I live in Russia, we have the same system (coal and gas plants generating not only electricity but heat for homes) and this system is perfectly capable of delivering +28C inside when it's -30C outside. It varies from house to house, but "keeps you from freezing" is not the default.
- dmor 14y ago
  My guess, from the houses I went into, is their construction. I have to emphasize these are not houses like any first-world person would think of, as soon as you leave the big city there is very little that is modern about China - they're hapharzardly made with found objects, mud that has been packed and dried, thick layers of grasses woven and turned into sheets of ceiling tiles. Everything is handmade, and I have to imagine they are constantly searching for sources of heat loss and patching them. A lot of people also were burning dried animal waste, which was the worst smelling thing I can imagine enduring 24/7. I would be willing to bet if you are really poor you are also getting third rate coal, with lots of fillers that reduce its caloric output of heat (and it is cheaper).
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    I doubt they have central heating in hand made houses. It's usually limited to apartment blocks in cities.
    - dmor 14y ago
      Right, they have a coal stove in the room heating the space.
graue 14y ago
> if winter comes early, you still have to wait for November 15 for when the heat gets turned on. This happens in the first world, too. In Minneapolis (where I currently live) landlords are, on paper, required to provide at least 68°F starting October 1st. In my experience they turn on the heat a week or two after that, whenever they get around to it, basically. You have nothing for the cold late-September days. You don't control your heat in multifamily buildings, and sometimes it's more like 60° or below and you have to nag the landlord for a week to turn it up. There was a week right around Christmas where I could practically see my breath. I imagine you can buy your way out of this by paying (a lot) more to rent a nicer, more modern place, but for many, of course, that's not an option.
- cbr 14y ago
  I don't know about Minneapolis, but in MA you can withhold rent if the landlord isn't meeting their obligations. (Downside is making the landlord-tenant relationship more adversarial.)
  - graue 14y ago
    Yup, MN has that, but the more you complain and fight with a landlord, the more likely they nail you on some technicality, and there goes $100+ of your security deposit on move-out. Then, even if their claim is clearly bogus, a court victory's far from assured and the filing fee would be almost as great as the amount you lost. Maybe I've just been unlucky but the housing law story in MN seems extremely unfavorable to tenants. Washington, DC was much better. I heard it has tenant-friendly laws but I never had to test that.