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From the article kindly submitted here: "'We have a more informed class of college consumers,' said Bonnie Snyder, founder of Kerrigan College Planning in Lanc

From the article kindly submitted here: "'We have a more informed class of college consumers,' said Bonnie Snyder, founder of Kerrigan College Planning in Lancaster, Pa. 'Everyone today knows someone who went to college and ended up with a career that didn't justify the cost. They see college as a more risky investment.'" Yep. More and more of us know more and more examples of college graduates who live in their parents' basements because they can't support themselves with their college diploma. It's time to be more discerning consumers of higher education. Colleges try to confuse the issue of their value with imaginary list prices subject to discounts ("scholarships") that mislead about what a college is actually worth. Here's an interesting link about how colleges are advised to set their prices by consulting firms, a link I learned about from a Harvard-trained economist and policy analyst: http://www.maguireassoc.com/services-challenges/optimize-net-revenue/ http://www.maguireassoc.com/services-challenges/optimize-net...

gojomo 14y ago
High prices plus liberal aid is a great racket. The combination lets a college look both extra valuable ("such high tuition!") and extra generous ("so much aid!"). All the while, they're actually engaging in profit-maximizing price-discrimination and government-subsidy-farming. More on how this may not be sustainable for higher education here: http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/11/26/the-net-price-myth/ http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/11/26/the-net-p...
anigbrowl 14y ago
Colleges try to confuse the issue of their value with imaginary list prices subject to discounts ("scholarships") The lack of transparency in the discounting process is deplorable. I ended up trying law study via an online correspondence school - a terrible idea, with hindsight, due to the social isolation - because the B&M schools' scholarship policy seemed so arbitrary and opaque that I was unwilling to take the risk of becoming liable for $ix-figure up-front tuition costs if I didn't play my cards right. This hasn't done my continuing education/career prospects any good, but in mid-life I don't feel comfortable playing poker for >$100k of non-dischargeable student loan debt.
enjo 14y ago
All I have to do is take one quick look at unemployment rates to understand just how valuable college is. In the rhetoric over rising costs, the benefits have never been more clear.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Could you elaborate?
  - enjo 14y ago
    The unemployment rate for college degree holders has more or less been 50% less than the overall rate for the last several years. College degree holders, as a class, weathered this recession far better than anyone else. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm
    - fyolnish 14y ago
      And of course the fact that the richer and/or smarter of us tend to be the ones who attend college is not a factor at all.
    - rflrob 14y ago
      The real concern is not whether college degree holders, as a class, do better, but whether a 17-19 year old would do better by entering that class. What those statistics don't include is something for recent grads. Ideally, you'd want to look at the unemployment rates for people approximately 24-30, stratified by college degree or not. And even then, it wouldn't necessarily give you a complete picture, due to all kinds of selection bias in the people who do or do not go to college. I would predict, however, that the unemployment rate for recent grads would be closer to the non-college graduate rate for the same age than to the all-ages college graduate rate.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      It's difficult to say for many reasons. You have selection bias going on, and maybe a bit of cargo cult ingrained into society. Not that I'm against college, but to make it a primary cause is probably not very accurate.
elteto 14y ago
"More and more of us know more and more examples of college graduates who live in their parents' basements because they can't support themselves with their college diploma." Source? Or just speculation? I for one, know many people living in basements, but not a single one of them has a college degree. Anecdotal evidence only goes so far. "It's time to be more discerning consumers of higher education." Higher education is as necessary today as it has always been, and will continue to be for the forseeable future. We need trained professionals to work on highly technical areas, or we can't progress. How else are we going to have mechanical, aerospace, electrical, chemical engineers and many other professions? This doesn't mean that a college or university is for everyone though. It is left to each person to balance the very subjective pros and cons of deciding whether to go to college or not. Also no students are forced to attend highly expensive colleges, since most of the time there exists a high quality public institution available.
- btilly 14y ago
  http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/half_of_recent_college_grads_u.html http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/half_of_... quotes a number of stats on this. Over half of recent college grads are underemployed or unemployed. This figure used to be lower in the past. But the shift is smaller than I was honestly expecting, and largely can be attributed to the economy.
- goostavos 14y ago
  I'll balance your anecdote with my own: I too know several who are living at home that have degrees. Yes, we'll always need STEM people, but I think you're forgetting that STEM is a pretty narrow part of what colleges do. Heck, I've got a buddy who has his degree in Theater. Theater! Why that is a degree option at a university, I have no idea. Not to mention art, comm (which every other person seems to major in), History, English, etc.. These are a little more representative of the "basement" ex-college goers. For non-technical people, I kind of feel like college is a pretty poor investment. Going to a vocational school would probably pay off more in the end.
  - stdbrouw 14y ago
OGinparadise 14y ago
On the other hand, factory jobs were sent to China or replaced by robots and there is work only for x number of plumbers, mechanics and electricians. Individually, everyone is trying to do better than the other, until they get the bill and have no jobs.

gojomo 14y ago

High prices plus liberal aid is a great racket. The combination lets a college look both extra valuable ("such high tuition!") and extra generous ("so much aid!"). All the while, they're actually engaging in profit-maximizing price-discrimination and government-subsidy-farming. More on how this may not be sustainable for higher education here: http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/11/26/the-net-price-myth/ http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2012/11/26/the-net-p...

anigbrowl 14y ago

Colleges try to confuse the issue of their value with imaginary list prices subject to discounts ("scholarships") The lack of transparency in the discounting process is deplorable. I ended up trying law study via an online correspondence school - a terrible idea, with hindsight, due to the social isolation - because the B&M schools' scholarship policy seemed so arbitrary and opaque that I was unwilling to take the risk of becoming liable for $ix-figure up-front tuition costs if I didn't play my cards right. This hasn't done my continuing education/career prospects any good, but in mid-life I don't feel comfortable playing poker for >$100k of non-dischargeable student loan debt.

enjo 14y ago

All I have to do is take one quick look at unemployment rates to understand just how valuable college is. In the rhetoric over rising costs, the benefits have never been more clear.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Could you elaborate?
- enjo 14y ago
  The unemployment rate for college degree holders has more or less been 50% less than the overall rate for the last several years. College degree holders, as a class, weathered this recession far better than anyone else. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm
  - fyolnish 14y ago
    And of course the fact that the richer and/or smarter of us tend to be the ones who attend college is not a factor at all.
  - rflrob 14y ago
    The real concern is not whether college degree holders, as a class, do better, but whether a 17-19 year old would do better by entering that class. What those statistics don't include is something for recent grads. Ideally, you'd want to look at the unemployment rates for people approximately 24-30, stratified by college degree or not. And even then, it wouldn't necessarily give you a complete picture, due to all kinds of selection bias in the people who do or do not go to college. I would predict, however, that the unemployment rate for recent grads would be closer to the non-college graduate rate for the same age than to the all-ages college graduate rate.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    It's difficult to say for many reasons. You have selection bias going on, and maybe a bit of cargo cult ingrained into society. Not that I'm against college, but to make it a primary cause is probably not very accurate.

elteto 14y ago

"More and more of us know more and more examples of college graduates who live in their parents' basements because they can't support themselves with their college diploma." Source? Or just speculation? I for one, know many people living in basements, but not a single one of them has a college degree. Anecdotal evidence only goes so far. "It's time to be more discerning consumers of higher education." Higher education is as necessary today as it has always been, and will continue to be for the forseeable future. We need trained professionals to work on highly technical areas, or we can't progress. How else are we going to have mechanical, aerospace, electrical, chemical engineers and many other professions? This doesn't mean that a college or university is for everyone though. It is left to each person to balance the very subjective pros and cons of deciding whether to go to college or not. Also no students are forced to attend highly expensive colleges, since most of the time there exists a high quality public institution available.

btilly 14y ago
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/half_of_recent_college_grads_u.html http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/half_of_... quotes a number of stats on this. Over half of recent college grads are underemployed or unemployed. This figure used to be lower in the past. But the shift is smaller than I was honestly expecting, and largely can be attributed to the economy.
goostavos 14y ago
I'll balance your anecdote with my own: I too know several who are living at home that have degrees. Yes, we'll always need STEM people, but I think you're forgetting that STEM is a pretty narrow part of what colleges do. Heck, I've got a buddy who has his degree in Theater. Theater! Why that is a degree option at a university, I have no idea. Not to mention art, comm (which every other person seems to major in), History, English, etc.. These are a little more representative of the "basement" ex-college goers. For non-technical people, I kind of feel like college is a pretty poor investment. Going to a vocational school would probably pay off more in the end.
- stdbrouw 14y ago

OGinparadise 14y ago

On the other hand, factory jobs were sent to China or replaced by robots and there is work only for x number of plumbers, mechanics and electricians. Individually, everyone is trying to do better than the other, until they get the bill and have no jobs.