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I hope I'm not insensitive, but if I'm having a bad day and my cab driver (or just about any total stranger) asks "how is your day" I am not compelled to tell h

I hope I'm not insensitive, but if I'm having a bad day and my cab driver (or just about any total stranger) asks "how is your day" I am not compelled to tell him about the intricacies of being me. It's not about fighting for "the truth", it's simply practical. This is generally how to behave for all matters of sex, politics, religion, and anything else personal. Small talk is small talk.

danabramov 14y ago
If I were gay, and if I came out once, I wouldn't feel comfortable inventing a wife for the sake of a conversation with a cab driver, every single time.
- jpwagner 14y ago
  If I'm having a bad day and a stranger asks "how's your day," I don't invent a good day.
  - danabramov 14y ago
    Yeah but your day is not something that differs you from the most people, something that many people don't accept, something that you probably have been humiliated for. You're not a “faggot” in high school because you had a bad day. It's something you chose to accept and tell your friends and parents and see some people sneer at you. I think that pretending to have a wife for the sake of smalltalk feels like going into the closet again, like admitting you must be guilty of something.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Why would you need to invent a wife? Usually when you are making small talk with someone who you will most likely only be in the company of for 5 minutes they are more interested in avoiding awkward silence than actually finding out details about your life. If you don't bring up a wife they will just as easily assume that you are single or divorced as much as gay. Besides , people who work in a public facing role like a cab driver or florist will most likely meet gay people all the time and won't find it the slightest bit novel.
      - elemenohpee 14y ago
        Notice that all the examples he gave were cases where a stranger made an assumption that put him in the position of either telling them he was gay or lying about it. It's interesting that commenters here keep having to invent a scenario where the guy was going around shouting to every passerby that he was gay. Yes, there are no cab drivers anywhere who might be perturbed by someone saying they are gay. Thanks jiggy2011, for reminding everyone that our societies issues around homophobia have been solved once and for all.
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        Outside of maybe very conservative areas or muslim countries I would imagine a cab driver being perturbed by gay people would not be in the business very long. I don't hang around in typically "gay" circles or even know that many people in general but I know enough gay people that homosexuality is not surprising for me at all. For the purposes of casual conversation with strangers, if someone asks about a wife surely it's simple enough to say "I'm not married" and allow them to assume whatever they like unless you feel like sharing more.
        elemenohpee 14y ago
        There are a lot of muslim cab drivers, even in progressive areas of the country. I think it would not be uncommon to find ones that are uncomfortable with homosexuality.
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        In my experience with Muslims (in England at least) they really don't care what non muslims do in non muslim countries. For example Muslims will not drink but almost every off license within a square mile of me is Muslim owned.
        scarmig 14y ago
        But what if you are married, to a man? In this example, straight people don't have to lie about not being married just to shut down small talk. Instead they use short responses, avoid eye contact, and give off the general vibe that they're not in the mood to talk. But why can't gay people do the same?
elemenohpee 14y ago
I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you straight? Not feeling compelled to tell people about your sexuality is a luxury afforded to people who fit into the norm. It's what LGBT activists would call "privilege", and it's something that we as straight/white/male/other dominant group need to be aware of if we don't wish to alienate minority groups.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - elemenohpee 14y ago
    Maybe, but the point is that he shouldn't. And besides, that's harder than it sounds. Like he said, even small talk about kids or whatever can lead to it.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- fallous 14y ago
  Why would my "sexuality" be a topic for anyone other than those close to me? If my wife and I like to dress up as robotic ninjas in order to get satisfaction, well then that's between my wife and I despite how "out of mainstream" it is and is no business of anyone else. I tire of the "acceptance" desire of so many people in so many areas of their lives. Tolerance != acceptance, it merely means that someone can tolerate an alternative without resorting to an attempt to suppress it. I don't have to accept the choice of people to paint their cars in zebra stripes, but I don't reach for an orbital sander and remove the paint because I can at least tolerate such a choice.
  - elemenohpee 14y ago
    If you read the blog post, you would see that it's much harder to avoid than a "robotic ninja fetish". Simple small talk can often lead to it being brought up, and it's counterproductive to the goal of an inclusive society to expect him to lie about it.
brudgers 14y ago
The analogy is crap. One's day is brief. One's relationships, longer. One's sexuality, tends to approach permanence we age.
- jpwagner 14y ago
  That's why I reference politics and religion. Choose your own analogy.
  - brudgers 14y ago
    Your argument depends upon conflating politics with sexuality. The ease with which each can be conflated with religion sends us down the slippery slope. We are often inclined to contain our political views for the sake of civility because they are opinions, and even those of widely differing views generally recognize that. Are disagreements are about the relevance of facts or the validity of their measuring. Generally the arguments are not about what exists in the shared world. While the distance between religion and politics may be small historically, outside the political realm, the distance between disagreement about politics and about religion can be huge. Religion asserts as fact a description of each person's position in the world. Thus, religious claims are about me personally, and unlike political claims, the speaker does not acknowledge that their view about me personally is opinion. As political speech, I may treat it the expression of civic opinion. When it characterizes me personally, it is another matter just like characterizations of my sexuality.
tijs 14y ago
"A cab driver asks if you have kids" So your answer would be no? Then you'd have to lie each time. Or would your answer be; sorry but i won't answer that question. That would work i guess but it would get tiring as well i'm sure.
- jpwagner 14y ago
  Do we need a course in "idle conversation"?
  - tijs 14y ago
    i'm simply suggesting your making it seems easier than it is.
DougBTX 14y ago
cab driver asks "how is your day" That's miss-representing the example. In the article the cab driver, "Then asks about your wife." Answering that question by saying that he doesn't have a wife isn't the same as talking about "the intricacies of being himself," just basic facts.
chernevik 14y ago
Everyone finds for themselves what witness they must bear. If the OP feels an obligation to help transform social views of homosexuality, well that's their duty as they see it. Likewise those evangelicals who feel the need to bear witness to what Jesus has done for them. If they share a cab it could well be an exhausting ride for everybody but this is beside the point of their obligations as they seem them. We must all do the right as we see it. We should all strive to see the right as best we can, but at any moment must work with that vision we have. Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Omitting what _you_ think right is wrong. Which brings us back to the OP's excellent point that expecting one's self to always meet one's own standard builds a sort of muscle, and leads to an undreamt of excellence.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- gizzlon 14y ago
  We must all do the right as we see it. [..] Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Hmm.. this seems like a form of relativism. Are you implying the inverse as well: Doing what _you_ think right is right? How do you defend that if "right" for me happens to be walking around nude in public, or more extreme, shooting people that I disagree with?
  - chernevik 14y ago
    It does seem so, doesn't it? But I couple it with a duty to always seek a better understanding of the right, and to a humility that appreciates you might be wrong. Moral principles are absolute and unchanging. But their _application_ is always subject to a context, and that context is often full of many different considerations of various weights. You may be of some Nudist religion but appreciate that your other duties require a prudent respect for the social requirement of clothing when earning the money required to meet those duties. If you believe something wrong and dangerous I will try to persuade you that you are _wrong_. I will try to persuade you to change your principles to better ones, or at least doubt yours enough to do nothing while you figure things out. But I won't try to persuade you to not live with integrity. If you believe in shooting people you disagree with, and I think you're actually likely to act on that, then I will act to stop you. Because I have a duty to the just and the innocent to protect them from people who believe stuff that crazy. But just because I oppose you doesn't mean I don't think you mean well, just that you're wrong and must be stopped.

danabramov 14y ago

If I were gay, and if I came out once, I wouldn't feel comfortable inventing a wife for the sake of a conversation with a cab driver, every single time.

jpwagner 14y ago
If I'm having a bad day and a stranger asks "how's your day," I don't invent a good day.
- danabramov 14y ago
  Yeah but your day is not something that differs you from the most people, something that many people don't accept, something that you probably have been humiliated for. You're not a “faggot” in high school because you had a bad day. It's something you chose to accept and tell your friends and parents and see some people sneer at you. I think that pretending to have a wife for the sake of smalltalk feels like going into the closet again, like admitting you must be guilty of something.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Why would you need to invent a wife? Usually when you are making small talk with someone who you will most likely only be in the company of for 5 minutes they are more interested in avoiding awkward silence than actually finding out details about your life. If you don't bring up a wife they will just as easily assume that you are single or divorced as much as gay. Besides , people who work in a public facing role like a cab driver or florist will most likely meet gay people all the time and won't find it the slightest bit novel.
    - elemenohpee 14y ago
      Notice that all the examples he gave were cases where a stranger made an assumption that put him in the position of either telling them he was gay or lying about it. It's interesting that commenters here keep having to invent a scenario where the guy was going around shouting to every passerby that he was gay. Yes, there are no cab drivers anywhere who might be perturbed by someone saying they are gay. Thanks jiggy2011, for reminding everyone that our societies issues around homophobia have been solved once and for all.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        Outside of maybe very conservative areas or muslim countries I would imagine a cab driver being perturbed by gay people would not be in the business very long. I don't hang around in typically "gay" circles or even know that many people in general but I know enough gay people that homosexuality is not surprising for me at all. For the purposes of casual conversation with strangers, if someone asks about a wife surely it's simple enough to say "I'm not married" and allow them to assume whatever they like unless you feel like sharing more.
        elemenohpee 14y ago
        There are a lot of muslim cab drivers, even in progressive areas of the country. I think it would not be uncommon to find ones that are uncomfortable with homosexuality.
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        In my experience with Muslims (in England at least) they really don't care what non muslims do in non muslim countries. For example Muslims will not drink but almost every off license within a square mile of me is Muslim owned.
        scarmig 14y ago
        But what if you are married, to a man? In this example, straight people don't have to lie about not being married just to shut down small talk. Instead they use short responses, avoid eye contact, and give off the general vibe that they're not in the mood to talk. But why can't gay people do the same?

elemenohpee 14y ago

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you straight? Not feeling compelled to tell people about your sexuality is a luxury afforded to people who fit into the norm. It's what LGBT activists would call "privilege", and it's something that we as straight/white/male/other dominant group need to be aware of if we don't wish to alienate minority groups.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- elemenohpee 14y ago
  Maybe, but the point is that he shouldn't. And besides, that's harder than it sounds. Like he said, even small talk about kids or whatever can lead to it.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
fallous 14y ago
Why would my "sexuality" be a topic for anyone other than those close to me? If my wife and I like to dress up as robotic ninjas in order to get satisfaction, well then that's between my wife and I despite how "out of mainstream" it is and is no business of anyone else. I tire of the "acceptance" desire of so many people in so many areas of their lives. Tolerance != acceptance, it merely means that someone can tolerate an alternative without resorting to an attempt to suppress it. I don't have to accept the choice of people to paint their cars in zebra stripes, but I don't reach for an orbital sander and remove the paint because I can at least tolerate such a choice.
- elemenohpee 14y ago
  If you read the blog post, you would see that it's much harder to avoid than a "robotic ninja fetish". Simple small talk can often lead to it being brought up, and it's counterproductive to the goal of an inclusive society to expect him to lie about it.

brudgers 14y ago

The analogy is crap. One's day is brief. One's relationships, longer. One's sexuality, tends to approach permanence we age.

jpwagner 14y ago
That's why I reference politics and religion. Choose your own analogy.
- brudgers 14y ago
  Your argument depends upon conflating politics with sexuality. The ease with which each can be conflated with religion sends us down the slippery slope. We are often inclined to contain our political views for the sake of civility because they are opinions, and even those of widely differing views generally recognize that. Are disagreements are about the relevance of facts or the validity of their measuring. Generally the arguments are not about what exists in the shared world. While the distance between religion and politics may be small historically, outside the political realm, the distance between disagreement about politics and about religion can be huge. Religion asserts as fact a description of each person's position in the world. Thus, religious claims are about me personally, and unlike political claims, the speaker does not acknowledge that their view about me personally is opinion. As political speech, I may treat it the expression of civic opinion. When it characterizes me personally, it is another matter just like characterizations of my sexuality.

tijs 14y ago

"A cab driver asks if you have kids" So your answer would be no? Then you'd have to lie each time. Or would your answer be; sorry but i won't answer that question. That would work i guess but it would get tiring as well i'm sure.

jpwagner 14y ago
Do we need a course in "idle conversation"?
- tijs 14y ago
  i'm simply suggesting your making it seems easier than it is.

DougBTX 14y ago

cab driver asks "how is your day" That's miss-representing the example. In the article the cab driver, "Then asks about your wife." Answering that question by saying that he doesn't have a wife isn't the same as talking about "the intricacies of being himself," just basic facts.

chernevik 14y ago

Everyone finds for themselves what witness they must bear. If the OP feels an obligation to help transform social views of homosexuality, well that's their duty as they see it. Likewise those evangelicals who feel the need to bear witness to what Jesus has done for them. If they share a cab it could well be an exhausting ride for everybody but this is beside the point of their obligations as they seem them. We must all do the right as we see it. We should all strive to see the right as best we can, but at any moment must work with that vision we have. Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Omitting what _you_ think right is wrong. Which brings us back to the OP's excellent point that expecting one's self to always meet one's own standard builds a sort of muscle, and leads to an undreamt of excellence.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gizzlon 14y ago
We must all do the right as we see it. [..] Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong. Hmm.. this seems like a form of relativism. Are you implying the inverse as well: Doing what _you_ think right is right? How do you defend that if "right" for me happens to be walking around nude in public, or more extreme, shooting people that I disagree with?
- chernevik 14y ago
  It does seem so, doesn't it? But I couple it with a duty to always seek a better understanding of the right, and to a humility that appreciates you might be wrong. Moral principles are absolute and unchanging. But their _application_ is always subject to a context, and that context is often full of many different considerations of various weights. You may be of some Nudist religion but appreciate that your other duties require a prudent respect for the social requirement of clothing when earning the money required to meet those duties. If you believe something wrong and dangerous I will try to persuade you that you are _wrong_. I will try to persuade you to change your principles to better ones, or at least doubt yours enough to do nothing while you figure things out. But I won't try to persuade you to not live with integrity. If you believe in shooting people you disagree with, and I think you're actually likely to act on that, then I will act to stop you. Because I have a duty to the just and the innocent to protect them from people who believe stuff that crazy. But just because I oppose you doesn't mean I don't think you mean well, just that you're wrong and must be stopped.