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Pepper the Pigs
- dragonbonheur 14y agoPepper sprays are considered as offensive WEAPONS in some countries and their possession might be illegal.
- mikeash 14y agoThis site is specific to India, and a quick search shows that pepper spray is legal in India. What is the point of your comment?
- dragonbonheur 14y agoWhat is the point of asking me what the point is? OK, if it's legal in India then it's a good initiative. But I wish more was being done worldwide to educate men that women aren't their playthings.
- mikeash 14y agoTo 1) see if I might have missed something and 2) passive-aggressively point out that your comment was off the mark.
- dragonbonheur 14y agoThe aggressive part of your passivity is uncalled for. The point of a forum like HN is discussion. Some post, others respond. Even though mistakes are made. That's the whole point of society. Keep cool man.
- untog 14y agoWhile I support the overall idea, the name "Pepper the Pigs" is going to be very confusing in the USA- 'pigs' is a slang term for a policeman, so my immediate association was that you want to pepperspray police officers.
- coob 14y agoPeppa Pig is also a popular children's cartoon series in the UK.
- untog 14y agoHa, yes. I'm an ex-pat in America and my first thought was "some tie-in for that show that the bloke from the Chris Moyles show is in".
- aes256 14y agoI'm fairly certain that's the pun.
- danielweber 14y agoIt's played in America as well, on Nick or Nick Jr I'm pretty sure.
- geekam 14y agoI think 'pig' comes from 'male chauvinistic pigs', doesn't it?
- untog 14y agoAbsolutely- and I'm sure that is the intention in this case. However, if they want to solicit donations from the US (they might not care) there is the potential for confusion.
- jere 14y agoIs this even aimed at people outside of India? The currencies are listed in rupees only.
- danso 14y agoMe too, but to be fair, it becomes clear what this is about pretty easily. And perhaps the provocative confusion of the name causes more people to click through out of curiousity
- vowofnow 14y ago
- Tichy 14y agoI think I've heard self defense experts recommend against pepper spray. Not sure why - perhaps fumbling around for it in your purse wastes too much valuable time, and there is the danger of hurting yourself instead of the attacker? In any case it seems very naive to me to think the problem could be solved in such a way. I certainly don't think it is because of pepper spray that we presumably have less rape incidents in the western world.
- jerf 14y agoWhat's your proposed "non-naive" solution? (And does it leave a window of decades in some places before it can be feasibly implemented in India, where vast swathes of the country are still third-world?)
- dragonbonheur 14y agoHere it is, Rape-aXe: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9guyVVqHcYo It can be made for cheap and there is demand for it.
- aneth4 14y agoI had forgotten about these. Does seem like an interesting product, though I think they would discovered and removed by many potential rapists. I wonder if a girl who used one successfully could be charged with assault. That would be a sad irony.
- jerf 14y agoMmm, I'd really rather use a solution that doesn't leave an enraged and otherwise healthy man able to beat you, possibly unto death, because you hurt his penis. Pepper spray incapacitates for long enough for you to leave. It was certainly an idea that got the doctor on the international news, but I'm skeptical that it's going to be effective in practice. (But if there is evidence that people can dig up that it is, I'm open to the idea; I mean that I am skeptical in the true sense of being open to evidence, not as a deceptive way of saying I'll never believe.)
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- tesmar2 14y agoI like this idea, at least as a temporary stop-gap. Long term, more needs to be done in terms of teaching the men the value of women. That involves a change of the heart as well as mind.
- danso 14y agoTwo problems (IMO): A. I understand that this is an inspired act sparked by the very recent events in India...but more explanation needs to be visible in order to make this organization seem legit. I'm not talking about showing us your registration and non-profit organization permit, I mean "Kickstarter Pitch" level: I'm just giving my money to who now (listing a few organizations isn't enough, I need names of reps to at least be assured you're just not misappropriating their name)? How is it being spent? What is the purchasing price that you're using? What are your plans for transparency (i.e. a weekly/monthly report on how many sprays have been given out). I realize that last bit may be hard because you're not at that volume-of-action yet...but this could be slightly mitigated by either securing a decent donation from a group/benefactor or the organizers themselves making the initial sizable donation. Yes I guess that sounds a bit entitled ("why can't you build the distribution site AND purchase the supplies") but if your call to action is going to berate people for just sitting around on Facebook...well, you kind of put yourself in the position to set an example, right? B) The "Buy a pepper spray" graph just reeks of "white knight syndrome": > A can costs Rs. 400. Have enough money to buy one? Do it. If you are a dude, buy one for your sister, your partner and every girl you care about (which should be every girl you know). What if you are not a "dude"? Just hope that, as a female, someone will purchase pepper sprays for your sister, partner, etc.? Also, not all affected by the rape problem are girls. Some of them, including the victim at the most currently famous case, are women. And that last sentence parenthetical is just patronizing and redundant: if I am the type of dude who would buy pepper spray for the women in my life, I don't need to be told that I should care about women, or any fellow human being, for that matter. Not trying to be overly harsh here. Congrats on you for stepping it up and trying something out. But if there's resolvable problems (IMO, of course), might as well think about them now and help the success of your noble mission.
- alanctgardner2 14y ago>What if you are not a "dude"? There is literally nothing in the passage you quote that implies women can't buy themselves pepper spray. "Have enough money to buy one? Do it." implies everyone, regardless of gender, should be buying cans to use or distribute. The parenthetical bit is a little weird, but I assume they mean that it's not just your close friends and family, no women should ever be raped. There are issues with the site, and I think you raise some valid points. But this is just jumping to conclusions, and it muddies the issue a bit.
- MattRogish 14y agoI'm in favor of self-defense -- but buying a can of pepper spray and keeping it in your purse, pocket, glove box, whatever and never training with it is not likely to be a significant benefit in event of an attack. More likely, it will harm you more than it helps. a) If you've never sprayed it before, how do you know how far it goes, the spray pattern, how much pressure it takes to depress the button, how long it lasts? b) pepper spray is indiscriminate - it will get on you, and if you're not ready for that, it's very possible that you will find yourself completely helpless, eyes burning, coughing, gasping for breath - all while being attacked. This is why law enforcement and the military, before they leave "basic training", are exposed to a wide variety of agents they expect to meet in the field, including pepper spray (I went through pepper spray training. Very eye opening {or closing!} to say the least). If you are carrying pepper spray, you owe it to yourself to get proper training that includes being sprayed with it in the face and how to still defend yourself while under the effects. Otherwise, it's just a potentially deadly talisman. http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/pepper-spray-reaction.htm http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/pepper-spray-reaction.htm http://www.safariland.com/blog/post/OC-Spray-Training-To-Be-or-Not-to-Be-Sprayed.aspx http://www.safariland.com/blog/post/OC-Spray-Training-To-Be-...
- evilduck 14y agoHaving worked in law enforcement, pepper spray is misery. Everyone in the area gets some exposure, it burns for like 45 minutes at least, it clings to skin and hair and clothes (and police car seats) and you don't realize it until your eyes are burning again the next day because you scratched a crevise of your ear and then later rubbed your eye. Forget wearing contacts for a day or two. If you get maced (Other irritants gasses besides the pepper spray) all of your mucus membrane decide the drain all fluids possible and you're coughing up a storm. Really, just hope you get tazed instead. Hurts a little more but it's over so much quicker. Or, if possible, avoid physical confrontations with the police.
- pranavpiyush 14y agoAgreed... the state in India is such that many are not even aware of the concept or think that they will never need it. The point of the campaign is to educate, provide access, and hopefully encourage everyone to get the proper training. That probably applies to every form of self defense, no?
- binaryorganic 14y agoI'm not sure pepper spray gets to the heart of the issue. We're talking about something much more ingrained in the culture than simple predators lurking in some alley, no? Do you have any idea what could happen to a woman that pepper sprays the wrong man in some parts of the world? We're talking about a place that still has thousands of cases of bride burning each year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_burning#In_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_burning#In_India). Not sure how pepper spray is the first step here.
- tesmar2 14y agoExactly, this feels like a bandaid on a gaping wound. If we are going to spend our energies, it should be for education/legal change....or getting at the hearts/minds of the Indian people. The international Justice mission is a great team of lawyers who fight for such change. http://www.ijm.org/ http://www.ijm.org/
- mcgwiz 14y agoIndia is a huge country, and I would assume that cultural norms vary throughout. In my view, the heart of the issue is a lack of attention to the problem by those with power, creating an environment with no consequences for this type of behavior. Self-defense can both attract attention and effect consequences (both directly and indirectly through the attention brought). Generally speaking, cultural norms rarely change overnight or through some collective and conscious agreement or referendum. Among other things, the combined effect of individual actions can spark cultural change. I don't know if the link is legit or the most efficient organization to do this, but pepper spray can certainly be a single vector among many to effect wider change.