6 ms·

Just a note: 'It begs the question' doesn't mean what I think you think it means.

jamesaguilar 14y ago
1. if a statement or situation begs the question, it causes you to ask a particular question It's all very well talking about extra staff but it rather begs the question of how we're going to pay for them. -- Cambridge Idiom Dictionary, 2nd ed.
- AgentConundrum 14y ago
  Yes, but that's not what the phrase originally meant. Its usage has changed over the years to the point where things like your source consider the new version to be accurate. However, there are many - including myself for a time - who still fight to preserve the original meaning. I stopped doing it when I realized that a) English is a fluid language, and b) some people - again, possibly including myself - simply liked to correct people to show off.
  - jamesaguilar 14y ago
    Yes, and we originally said things like thee and thy. And thy meant my, or some crap like that.
    - FxChiP 14y ago
      "Thy" meant "your". Close enough!
    - dakimov 14y ago
      Horatio, thou art a scholar!
    - qu4z-2 14y ago
      And then y'all started talking to each other in plural all the time. (OK, so 'you' was used as a formal singular for a long time too, but I like my version better)
      - robocat 14y ago
        I really love y'all and you'ze - because the grammatical construct exists in other languages such as Spanish. Those words are used by some English speaking cultures because they are useful. I wonder of the usage is emergent (independent rediscovery), or a cultural meme transferred from another language?
    - noonespecial 14y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou Another fascinating journey on the good ship Wikipedia.
- davekinkead 14y ago
  As a philosophical term of art, 'Begging the question' is a logical fallacy whereby the conclusion of an argument is just the restatement of the premise(s). Commonly however, it is used to mean 'raises or leads the question'. Whether the common usage is correct or not depends on which side of the descriptive/prescriptive language fence one sits on. (A matter totally off topic)
  - jamesaguilar 14y ago
    I am aware of its philosophical meaning. But normally one does not correct someone's usage of a word if that usage is in the dictionary, even if it might not have been fifty years ago, except if the topic under discussion is philosophy or logic.
IvyMike 14y ago
Notably, it does not mean what the logical grouping of those words would mean: "begs for the question to be asked". Of course, I believe I've seen "begs the question" used correctly exactly never, and there's an obvious need for a pithy idiom for "begs for the question to be asked", but we don't really have one. This once again awakens my suspicions that the English language is an elaborate practical joke. And I say that as a native speaker.
- bcoates 14y ago
  It's just a way of filling time and distancing yourself from the question. Irregardless of pendantry about the definition you usually improve your sentence by just leaving it out.
  - eric_h 14y ago
    "Irregardless of the pedantry[...]" I'm just going to assume that's intentional irony. Genius.
- philwelch 14y ago
  > and there's an obvious need for a pithy idiom for "begs for the question to be asked" "raises the question". Educated people saved the word "irony" once, "begs the question" isn't gone yet.
  - IvyMike 14y ago
    The misuse of "irony" is another one of those situations that seems to show that there's a missing word in the English language. To take one specific example from Alanis, (yes I'm going there), there's something peculiarly funny about "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" in a way that wouldn't be if you had "ten thousand turtles when all you need is a knife". I think we needed a word for "bittersweet happenstance", and people wrongly latched onto "irony".
    - rbehrends 14y ago
politician 14y ago
I hate this trivially predictable response. Similar to observations of Betteridge's Law of headlines, "begs the question" corrections just seem like HN karma pumps.
- pixie_ 14y ago
  I don't give a shit about karma.

1. if a statement or situation begs the question, it causes you to ask a particular question It's all very well talking about extra staff but it rather begs the question of how we're going to pay for them. -- Cambridge Idiom Dictionary, 2nd ed.

AgentConundrum 14y ago
Yes, but that's not what the phrase originally meant. Its usage has changed over the years to the point where things like your source consider the new version to be accurate. However, there are many - including myself for a time - who still fight to preserve the original meaning. I stopped doing it when I realized that a) English is a fluid language, and b) some people - again, possibly including myself - simply liked to correct people to show off.
- jamesaguilar 14y ago
  Yes, and we originally said things like thee and thy. And thy meant my, or some crap like that.
  - FxChiP 14y ago
    "Thy" meant "your". Close enough!
  - dakimov 14y ago
    Horatio, thou art a scholar!
  - qu4z-2 14y ago
    And then y'all started talking to each other in plural all the time. (OK, so 'you' was used as a formal singular for a long time too, but I like my version better)
    - robocat 14y ago
      I really love y'all and you'ze - because the grammatical construct exists in other languages such as Spanish. Those words are used by some English speaking cultures because they are useful. I wonder of the usage is emergent (independent rediscovery), or a cultural meme transferred from another language?
  - noonespecial 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou Another fascinating journey on the good ship Wikipedia.
davekinkead 14y ago
As a philosophical term of art, 'Begging the question' is a logical fallacy whereby the conclusion of an argument is just the restatement of the premise(s). Commonly however, it is used to mean 'raises or leads the question'. Whether the common usage is correct or not depends on which side of the descriptive/prescriptive language fence one sits on. (A matter totally off topic)
- jamesaguilar 14y ago
  I am aware of its philosophical meaning. But normally one does not correct someone's usage of a word if that usage is in the dictionary, even if it might not have been fifty years ago, except if the topic under discussion is philosophy or logic.

IvyMike 14y ago

Notably, it does not mean what the logical grouping of those words would mean: "begs for the question to be asked". Of course, I believe I've seen "begs the question" used correctly exactly never, and there's an obvious need for a pithy idiom for "begs for the question to be asked", but we don't really have one. This once again awakens my suspicions that the English language is an elaborate practical joke. And I say that as a native speaker.

bcoates 14y ago
It's just a way of filling time and distancing yourself from the question. Irregardless of pendantry about the definition you usually improve your sentence by just leaving it out.
- eric_h 14y ago
  "Irregardless of the pedantry[...]" I'm just going to assume that's intentional irony. Genius.
philwelch 14y ago
> and there's an obvious need for a pithy idiom for "begs for the question to be asked" "raises the question". Educated people saved the word "irony" once, "begs the question" isn't gone yet.
- IvyMike 14y ago
  The misuse of "irony" is another one of those situations that seems to show that there's a missing word in the English language. To take one specific example from Alanis, (yes I'm going there), there's something peculiarly funny about "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" in a way that wouldn't be if you had "ten thousand turtles when all you need is a knife". I think we needed a word for "bittersweet happenstance", and people wrongly latched onto "irony".
  - rbehrends 14y ago

politician 14y ago

I hate this trivially predictable response. Similar to observations of Betteridge's Law of headlines, "begs the question" corrections just seem like HN karma pumps.

pixie_ 14y ago
I don't give a shit about karma.