5 ms·

Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that. Problem is that we don't know an

Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that. Problem is that we don't know any such hardware..

hardbass 5d ago
Why? The human brain already exists. Unless you have some well defined criterion for what hardware can support consciousness how can you say that?
- lolakutty 5d ago
  Oh, I thought you were talking about "architectures" not containing a human brain..
  - hardbass 5d ago
    Why? What's so strange about a human brain? It is a physical system of molecules running electrical and chemical signals. We already have direct proof that physical systems support consciousness. So why do you believe other physical systems can't have consciousness? Give me your definition of what consciousness is.
    - lolakutty 5d ago
      >Give me your definition of what consciousness is. It should have the ability to feel...
      - hardbass 5d ago
        How do I know you can feel? You can say you feel just an an AI can say it feels.
        lolakutty 5d ago
        You don't have to know that. All you have to know is that you can feel and is conscious, and this consciousness is a result of your physical body..
        hardbass 5d ago
        Yes but you are not me, I am me. I don't know you are conscious or can "feel". Both you and an LLM present themselves using words and other external indications only. If you argue brain scans, then similar experiments have been done on LLMs too.
        lolakutty 5d ago
        To my argument to work, to answer "why is a brain special", you only have to consider two things. 1. That you are conscious. 2. That you have a human body with a brain. This implies that your body can harbor consciousness. That is what is special about your body in this context. And that answers your question.
        hardbass 5d ago
        Yes and? Where is your disproof that other physical systems can't hold consciousness? I am sure of my body, I am not sure of you. I can feel, but how do I know you are not faking the outputs of feeling? 1. Scooters can move from a place to a place. 2. That a scooter has a body with an engine. Therefore scooters are special and cars don't exist.
        lolakutty 5d ago
        >but how do I know you are not faking the outputs of feeling? You won't..but it does not matter. >Where is your disproof that other physical systems can't hold consciousness? I said no such thing. Just that there is no reason to think that LLMs are conscious. If we find some natural or artificial entity with some unknown and un-inspectable thing inside it, that behaves in an intelligent manner, I would not be sure that it is not conscious.
WarmWash 5d ago
And I am sure that lolakutty will momentarily bestow the world with a consciousness test, solving a problem that has eluded millions of top thinking man hours over millennia of trying... However, I feel rather certain, that deep down the proposed test will just be another "is it chemical goo?"
- lolakutty 5d ago
  The test can only be done on oneself, and not on others. So I know I am conscious, and I am made up of a brain, among other things. So I know for a fact that this set of things that I am comprised of, can generate consciousness.
  - WarmWash 5d ago
    But then you are stuck being the only conscious entity... To extended anywhere beyond the firm ground of "I know I am conscious", you need to step onto the progressively shaky ground of assumptions, which just amounts to "tests of consciousness" i.e. I have a chemical goo brain that is conscious, therefore other chemical goo brains are conscious... It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That knowledge is no help in determining the consciousness of anything besides yourself.
    - lolakutty 5d ago
      >It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That is correct.
      - WarmWash 5d ago
        >Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that. Then circling back to your original comment, no architecture can include hardware that is known to be conscious, unless that architecture includes your personal brain, because lolakutty's brain is the only thing in the universe that is capable of generating consciousness... Which is a totally meaningless statement. This is like im14andthisisdeep levels of philosophy here...the "Nothing is real therefore everything is real" kinda stoner riffing

Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that. Problem is that we don't know any such hardware..

hardbass 5d ago

Why? The human brain already exists. Unless you have some well defined criterion for what hardware can support consciousness how can you say that?

lolakutty 5d ago
Oh, I thought you were talking about "architectures" not containing a human brain..
- hardbass 5d ago
  Why? What's so strange about a human brain? It is a physical system of molecules running electrical and chemical signals. We already have direct proof that physical systems support consciousness. So why do you believe other physical systems can't have consciousness? Give me your definition of what consciousness is.
  - lolakutty 5d ago
    >Give me your definition of what consciousness is. It should have the ability to feel...
    - hardbass 5d ago
      How do I know you can feel? You can say you feel just an an AI can say it feels.
      - lolakutty 5d ago
        You don't have to know that. All you have to know is that you can feel and is conscious, and this consciousness is a result of your physical body..
        hardbass 5d ago
        Yes but you are not me, I am me. I don't know you are conscious or can "feel". Both you and an LLM present themselves using words and other external indications only. If you argue brain scans, then similar experiments have been done on LLMs too.
        lolakutty 5d ago
        To my argument to work, to answer "why is a brain special", you only have to consider two things. 1. That you are conscious. 2. That you have a human body with a brain. This implies that your body can harbor consciousness. That is what is special about your body in this context. And that answers your question.
        hardbass 5d ago
        Yes and? Where is your disproof that other physical systems can't hold consciousness? I am sure of my body, I am not sure of you. I can feel, but how do I know you are not faking the outputs of feeling? 1. Scooters can move from a place to a place. 2. That a scooter has a body with an engine. Therefore scooters are special and cars don't exist.
        lolakutty 5d ago
        >but how do I know you are not faking the outputs of feeling? You won't..but it does not matter. >Where is your disproof that other physical systems can't hold consciousness? I said no such thing. Just that there is no reason to think that LLMs are conscious. If we find some natural or artificial entity with some unknown and un-inspectable thing inside it, that behaves in an intelligent manner, I would not be sure that it is not conscious.

WarmWash 5d ago

And I am sure that lolakutty will momentarily bestow the world with a consciousness test, solving a problem that has eluded millions of top thinking man hours over millennia of trying... However, I feel rather certain, that deep down the proposed test will just be another "is it chemical goo?"

lolakutty 5d ago
The test can only be done on oneself, and not on others. So I know I am conscious, and I am made up of a brain, among other things. So I know for a fact that this set of things that I am comprised of, can generate consciousness.
- WarmWash 5d ago
  But then you are stuck being the only conscious entity... To extended anywhere beyond the firm ground of "I know I am conscious", you need to step onto the progressively shaky ground of assumptions, which just amounts to "tests of consciousness" i.e. I have a chemical goo brain that is conscious, therefore other chemical goo brains are conscious... It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That knowledge is no help in determining the consciousness of anything besides yourself.
  - lolakutty 5d ago
    >It is possible that you are the only conscious entity in the universe, and you have no tools whatsoever to disprove that. That is correct.
    - WarmWash 5d ago
      >Sure, if your architecture include hardware that is known to be capable of generation consciousness, the no one will say that. Then circling back to your original comment, no architecture can include hardware that is known to be conscious, unless that architecture includes your personal brain, because lolakutty's brain is the only thing in the universe that is capable of generating consciousness... Which is a totally meaningless statement. This is like im14andthisisdeep levels of philosophy here...the "Nothing is real therefore everything is real" kinda stoner riffing