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On Apple website it says 512GB memory option is available in October. I guess bumping to that one would cost additional 4-6k US$. So an Ultra with 2TB storage w

On Apple website it says 512GB memory option is available in October. I guess bumping to that one would cost additional 4-6k US$. So an Ultra with 2TB storage would be north of 15k US$. That’s like 12 years worth of OpenAI Pro subscriptions

geodel 5d ago
Agreed. Specially since one can pay half right now to OpenAI and sign a 12 year iron clad contract for uninterrupted service delivery of OpenAI Pro.
- vardump 5d ago
  I hope that was sarcasm.
  - cyclopeanutopia 5d ago
    "iron clad" :)
    - prmoustache 5d ago
      Censorship included.
- Kurtz79 5d ago
  I think we all expect the heavy subsidized subscriptions to end or significantly increase in price at some point, but it could be years from now and I'd rather spend a similar figure on an hypotetical Mac Studio M8 Ultra, or whatever more advanced competitor that will have likley appeared by that time. A more apples-to-apples comparison would be with API cost in OpenRouter at the same tok/s rate for the same models that you can run locally, maybe.
  - BatFastard 5d ago
    >A more apples-to-apples comparison Don't you mean an Apple to NVidea comparison?
  - qwytw 5d ago
    > heavy subsidized subscriptions to end Is there evidence that's true though? I mean gross margins on subscriptions being negative since the API is seemingly very profitable (if the price is compared with the cost of serving very large open models). As long as there is pressure from other providers serving cheaper models that are somewhat competitive without having to incur any of the R&D costs raising prices will be tricky.
- patrickmcnamara 5d ago
  HN always has these completely contrived counterarguments. What is actually going to realistically happen that will prevent use of an LLM provider? Did you think that the OP literally meant the 12 years or maybe it was just to show how expensive using a Mac Mini as an alternative is?
  - kridsdale1 5d ago
    Mass revolts of the peasantry burning down data centers and cutting fiber lines.
    - geodel 5d ago
      Yes, it feels like that. Whereas frontier labs are pushing the frontier of human knowledge, selflessly working towards pulling humanity from dark ages. Ignorant peasants trying to burn the modern civilization down. Don't they know data centers and fiber lines are lifeline of modern economy?
  - geodel 5d ago
    > how expensive using a Mac Mini as an alternative is? I think it goes without saying. And it is eminently evident over last couple of decades that from compute to storage to meals 3rd part providers have saved billions upon billions of dollars to enterprises and individuals alike by providing these essential services.
simonw 5d ago
Yeah, anyone who thinks local AI is going to save them money is likely to be disappointed, at least if they want to run models that are even remotely capable. Plenty of other reasons to get excited about local AI, but I don't think cost is one of them.
- matt-p 5d ago
  On a personal level maybe not yet, but for a medium business upwards it may make sense.
- criddell 5d ago
  Maybe you are using a local model to go after some Millennium Prize problem and you don't want OpenAI to take your work and use it to win the prize for themselves? $15k might be a bargain. And, yes, I know a current local model wasn't going to solve the Navier-Stokes problem, but I'm just using it as an example where privacy might be valuable.
  - simonw 5d ago
    Agreed, plenty of other reasons to get excited about local AI.
- hgoel 5d ago
  Despite being on a site called Hacker News, we seem to often overlook the simple aspect of wanting local AI hardware to hack (not necessarily in the cybersecurity sense) with. I got my local AI hardware because it's an enjoyable hobby for me.
  - ionwake 5d ago
    apparently if you ever point out HN starts for hackernews and thus expect related attitudes you get downvoted by shocked ( what I guess are zoomers and not bots ) that desperately opine the name is a random abberation doesn't mean anything and one should not deviate from our corporate overlods in any manner.
112233 5d ago
Hard to guess, it can go either way. If you will need to be in a syndicate to use non-sterilized models, that mac makes sense. But if there is mandatory registration of personal cyberarms, you risk going to mines once they check you purchases. You could try to play normie and pretend you simply wanted to show off, by keeping your actual work on external disk, but that leaves traces on system. Counting on someone in the Gap renting you gray iron works as long as you can swap credits. Still, this gear is tiny. Put it in your e-car, with uplink, and leave it at uncle's farm. Discreet.
- Razengan 5d ago
  I gotta have some of what you had :)
  - kridsdale1 5d ago
    I thought it was a fun bit of cyberpunk fiction. Those who downvoted him seem to have taken it at face value? I appreciate the reference to RUSH: Red Barchetta in the final line.
- woah 5d ago
  It was a dark rainy night in Neo-Tokyo as Blake puffed on his vapor cartridge and watched the Mac dealers prowl below. Almost 15k Union Credits to get one of them to meet you in an e-cafe with a fully loaded M5, but man, the inference rush from one of those things was something else.
- glitchc 5d ago
  I'm sold on "personal cyberarms" as a concept Do they include footguns from pointer bugs?
ericmay 5d ago
Just commenting here because you're discussing hardware: I thought the test results from the SSD published in this article [1] were pretty interesting. Maybe that's old news though. [1] https://www.macworld.com/article/3238319/mac-studio-m5-max-review.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3238319/mac-studio-m5-max-r...
nowittyusername 5d ago
512 option isnt worth it imo, you get severe slowdowns when weights are that large. 256 is the sweet spot, you can run large open weight models at decent speeds for full private inference.
- throw0101c 5d ago
  > 512 option isnt worth it imo, you get severe slowdowns when weights are that large. I think most people are getting 512 for running Chrome with a bunch of tabs open. /s
- Octoth0rpe 5d ago
  a) we don't actually know what the prices will look like yet, b) what about same weights + huge context? or, same weights that you'd run on 128gb/256gb, but multiple models running for different tasks?

geodel 5d ago

Agreed. Specially since one can pay half right now to OpenAI and sign a 12 year iron clad contract for uninterrupted service delivery of OpenAI Pro.

vardump 5d ago
I hope that was sarcasm.
- cyclopeanutopia 5d ago
  "iron clad" :)
  - prmoustache 5d ago
    Censorship included.
Kurtz79 5d ago
I think we all expect the heavy subsidized subscriptions to end or significantly increase in price at some point, but it could be years from now and I'd rather spend a similar figure on an hypotetical Mac Studio M8 Ultra, or whatever more advanced competitor that will have likley appeared by that time. A more apples-to-apples comparison would be with API cost in OpenRouter at the same tok/s rate for the same models that you can run locally, maybe.
- BatFastard 5d ago
  >A more apples-to-apples comparison Don't you mean an Apple to NVidea comparison?
- qwytw 5d ago
  > heavy subsidized subscriptions to end Is there evidence that's true though? I mean gross margins on subscriptions being negative since the API is seemingly very profitable (if the price is compared with the cost of serving very large open models). As long as there is pressure from other providers serving cheaper models that are somewhat competitive without having to incur any of the R&D costs raising prices will be tricky.
patrickmcnamara 5d ago
HN always has these completely contrived counterarguments. What is actually going to realistically happen that will prevent use of an LLM provider? Did you think that the OP literally meant the 12 years or maybe it was just to show how expensive using a Mac Mini as an alternative is?
- kridsdale1 5d ago
  Mass revolts of the peasantry burning down data centers and cutting fiber lines.
  - geodel 5d ago
    Yes, it feels like that. Whereas frontier labs are pushing the frontier of human knowledge, selflessly working towards pulling humanity from dark ages. Ignorant peasants trying to burn the modern civilization down. Don't they know data centers and fiber lines are lifeline of modern economy?
- geodel 5d ago
  > how expensive using a Mac Mini as an alternative is? I think it goes without saying. And it is eminently evident over last couple of decades that from compute to storage to meals 3rd part providers have saved billions upon billions of dollars to enterprises and individuals alike by providing these essential services.

simonw 5d ago

Yeah, anyone who thinks local AI is going to save them money is likely to be disappointed, at least if they want to run models that are even remotely capable. Plenty of other reasons to get excited about local AI, but I don't think cost is one of them.

matt-p 5d ago
On a personal level maybe not yet, but for a medium business upwards it may make sense.
criddell 5d ago
Maybe you are using a local model to go after some Millennium Prize problem and you don't want OpenAI to take your work and use it to win the prize for themselves? $15k might be a bargain. And, yes, I know a current local model wasn't going to solve the Navier-Stokes problem, but I'm just using it as an example where privacy might be valuable.
- simonw 5d ago
  Agreed, plenty of other reasons to get excited about local AI.
hgoel 5d ago
Despite being on a site called Hacker News, we seem to often overlook the simple aspect of wanting local AI hardware to hack (not necessarily in the cybersecurity sense) with. I got my local AI hardware because it's an enjoyable hobby for me.
- ionwake 5d ago
  apparently if you ever point out HN starts for hackernews and thus expect related attitudes you get downvoted by shocked ( what I guess are zoomers and not bots ) that desperately opine the name is a random abberation doesn't mean anything and one should not deviate from our corporate overlods in any manner.

112233 5d ago

Hard to guess, it can go either way. If you will need to be in a syndicate to use non-sterilized models, that mac makes sense. But if there is mandatory registration of personal cyberarms, you risk going to mines once they check you purchases. You could try to play normie and pretend you simply wanted to show off, by keeping your actual work on external disk, but that leaves traces on system. Counting on someone in the Gap renting you gray iron works as long as you can swap credits. Still, this gear is tiny. Put it in your e-car, with uplink, and leave it at uncle's farm. Discreet.

Razengan 5d ago
I gotta have some of what you had :)
- kridsdale1 5d ago
  I thought it was a fun bit of cyberpunk fiction. Those who downvoted him seem to have taken it at face value? I appreciate the reference to RUSH: Red Barchetta in the final line.
woah 5d ago
It was a dark rainy night in Neo-Tokyo as Blake puffed on his vapor cartridge and watched the Mac dealers prowl below. Almost 15k Union Credits to get one of them to meet you in an e-cafe with a fully loaded M5, but man, the inference rush from one of those things was something else.
glitchc 5d ago
I'm sold on "personal cyberarms" as a concept Do they include footguns from pointer bugs?

ericmay 5d ago

Just commenting here because you're discussing hardware: I thought the test results from the SSD published in this article [1] were pretty interesting. Maybe that's old news though. [1] https://www.macworld.com/article/3238319/mac-studio-m5-max-review.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3238319/mac-studio-m5-max-r...

nowittyusername 5d ago

512 option isnt worth it imo, you get severe slowdowns when weights are that large. 256 is the sweet spot, you can run large open weight models at decent speeds for full private inference.

throw0101c 5d ago
> 512 option isnt worth it imo, you get severe slowdowns when weights are that large. I think most people are getting 512 for running Chrome with a bunch of tabs open. /s
Octoth0rpe 5d ago
a) we don't actually know what the prices will look like yet, b) what about same weights + huge context? or, same weights that you'd run on 128gb/256gb, but multiple models running for different tasks?