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I find their explanation to be completely reasonable. As they clearly explained, giving you the choice to swap the RAM chips would create broader systemic prob

by sbarre 12d ago

I find their explanation to be completely reasonable. As they clearly explained, giving you the choice to swap the RAM chips would create broader systemic problems that would lead to bad customer experiences and a support burden for their organization. You'd be ok with that trade? Local maximalists like to imagine a world where everything is aligned with their own personal incentives, but then present this world as being filled with freedom and choices. Just not anyone else's freedom or choices, only their own.

Isamu 12d ago
>Local maximalists like to imagine a world where everything is aligned with their own personal incentives, but then present this world as being filled with freedom and choices. Just not anyone else's freedom or choices, only their own. Excellent comment, worth repeating, thanks
VCFundedGenYer 12d ago
The entire point of the RPi is the user can do whatever they want with it. So no, it's not reasonable at all. Buy an Apple product if you want what you're stating.
- camgunz 12d ago
  No, RPis are very inexpensive computers. What you're advocating would considerably increase the price of a Raspberry Pi to pay for the additional support burden (if this is even reasonable--should they hire a bunch of people just to answer "you bought a RPi w/ bootleg RAM" over and over again?), and that defeats the point.
  - dwedge 12d ago
    > No, RPis are very inexpensive computers. This hasn't been true for 5 or 6 years and there is very little reason to buy one over a second hand 1L PC these days. They are expensive and notorious for screwing SD cards. To put it into perspective, an 8GB raspberry pi with a 32GB SD card and cable but no monitor, no keyboard, no mouse is 251GBP. 35% the price of a macbook neo.
    - camgunz 12d ago
      A MacBook Neo is 699 GBP. An 8GB Raspberry Pi w/ 32GB SD card, cable, housing, fan and power supply from Kiwi Electronics is 188 EUR (160 GBP). A monitor, kb/mouse, and SD card from Newegg is 70 USD (45 GBP). Total 205 GBP, which is 70.7% cheaper than a MacBook Neo. Quite a discount!
dingaling 12d ago
> You'd be ok with that trade? Umm, yes...? Just put a 'warranty void when removed' frangible sticker on it. Seems to work fine for PCs. But so many people these days seem to be brainwashed into accepting that computing devices should come with soldered RAM and locked bootloaders, they probably can't even envisage how hardware used to be. Yes, modding my device voided the warranty and I didn't care. Freedom has a cost.
- camgunz 12d ago
  Pis aren't supposed to be for ultra-advanced users, they're even specifically marketed for kids. They're not gonna know if they got a bootlegged version or not.
- sbarre 12d ago
  > > You'd be ok with that trade? > Umm, yes...? Ok, and so that trade then means Raspberry Pis don't exist, because the conditions are such that the company doesn't have the incentive to produce the device in a way that makes sense to them. Congrats, you now live in a world where you are theoretically free to swamp the RAM on a device that never got made. Also tone down the freedom sob story: if you don't like the limitations of this device, buy a different one. Your "freedoms" are not at risk just because this small company trying to put out an affordable device is making trade-offs to protect the vast majority of their customers (who will never swap the RAM chips on their board) at the expense of a small minority who wants to do a thing their product is not intended for.
choo-t 12d ago
They could have : • etch the ram around on the board itself. • provide a pre-RMA check so user can verify if their unit is genuine (serial number linked to ram amount) • void warranty on resoldered board.
zb3 12d ago
> As they clearly explained, giving you the choice to swap the RAM chips would create broader systemic problems that would lead to bad customer experiences and a support burden for their organization. I can swap RAM on my laptop. What broader systemic problems beyond missed opportunities for more shareholder value (at the expense of everything else) does it create? > a support burden for their organization. What? I thought the seller is responsible for what they sell? Don't we have things like brands and trust or authorized sellers?
- sbarre 12d ago
  Did you actually read the linked discussion before jumping in to argue? Your questions have already been answered.
  - zb3 12d ago
    Yes I have read the forum post and discussions here before commenting. I can fall victim to scams if I willingly take the risk and buy something cheaper than official authorized sellers offer. Thanks to this risk I haven't yet lost all my brain cells or critical thinking yet. But if I do, I can always complain about pretty much everything to Raspberry Pi which'd undoubtedly increase support burden for them since they apparently can use AI or post copy-paste responses only when it's not the user complaining (or they just complain about locked hardware = no support burden then, these complaints are ok). Doesn't me losing my brain due to corporations treating me like a toddler count as a broader systemic risk to you? Probably not, but how about me AND YOU losing consumer choice?

by sbarre 12d ago

Isamu 12d ago

>Local maximalists like to imagine a world where everything is aligned with their own personal incentives, but then present this world as being filled with freedom and choices. Just not anyone else's freedom or choices, only their own. Excellent comment, worth repeating, thanks

VCFundedGenYer 12d ago

The entire point of the RPi is the user can do whatever they want with it. So no, it's not reasonable at all. Buy an Apple product if you want what you're stating.

camgunz 12d ago
No, RPis are very inexpensive computers. What you're advocating would considerably increase the price of a Raspberry Pi to pay for the additional support burden (if this is even reasonable--should they hire a bunch of people just to answer "you bought a RPi w/ bootleg RAM" over and over again?), and that defeats the point.
- dwedge 12d ago
  > No, RPis are very inexpensive computers. This hasn't been true for 5 or 6 years and there is very little reason to buy one over a second hand 1L PC these days. They are expensive and notorious for screwing SD cards. To put it into perspective, an 8GB raspberry pi with a 32GB SD card and cable but no monitor, no keyboard, no mouse is 251GBP. 35% the price of a macbook neo.
  - camgunz 12d ago
    A MacBook Neo is 699 GBP. An 8GB Raspberry Pi w/ 32GB SD card, cable, housing, fan and power supply from Kiwi Electronics is 188 EUR (160 GBP). A monitor, kb/mouse, and SD card from Newegg is 70 USD (45 GBP). Total 205 GBP, which is 70.7% cheaper than a MacBook Neo. Quite a discount!

dingaling 12d ago

> You'd be ok with that trade? Umm, yes...? Just put a 'warranty void when removed' frangible sticker on it. Seems to work fine for PCs. But so many people these days seem to be brainwashed into accepting that computing devices should come with soldered RAM and locked bootloaders, they probably can't even envisage how hardware used to be. Yes, modding my device voided the warranty and I didn't care. Freedom has a cost.

camgunz 12d ago
Pis aren't supposed to be for ultra-advanced users, they're even specifically marketed for kids. They're not gonna know if they got a bootlegged version or not.
sbarre 12d ago
> > You'd be ok with that trade? > Umm, yes...? Ok, and so that trade then means Raspberry Pis don't exist, because the conditions are such that the company doesn't have the incentive to produce the device in a way that makes sense to them. Congrats, you now live in a world where you are theoretically free to swamp the RAM on a device that never got made. Also tone down the freedom sob story: if you don't like the limitations of this device, buy a different one. Your "freedoms" are not at risk just because this small company trying to put out an affordable device is making trade-offs to protect the vast majority of their customers (who will never swap the RAM chips on their board) at the expense of a small minority who wants to do a thing their product is not intended for.

choo-t 12d ago

They could have : • etch the ram around on the board itself. • provide a pre-RMA check so user can verify if their unit is genuine (serial number linked to ram amount) • void warranty on resoldered board.

zb3 12d ago

> As they clearly explained, giving you the choice to swap the RAM chips would create broader systemic problems that would lead to bad customer experiences and a support burden for their organization. I can swap RAM on my laptop. What broader systemic problems beyond missed opportunities for more shareholder value (at the expense of everything else) does it create? > a support burden for their organization. What? I thought the seller is responsible for what they sell? Don't we have things like brands and trust or authorized sellers?

sbarre 12d ago
Did you actually read the linked discussion before jumping in to argue? Your questions have already been answered.
- zb3 12d ago
  Yes I have read the forum post and discussions here before commenting. I can fall victim to scams if I willingly take the risk and buy something cheaper than official authorized sellers offer. Thanks to this risk I haven't yet lost all my brain cells or critical thinking yet. But if I do, I can always complain about pretty much everything to Raspberry Pi which'd undoubtedly increase support burden for them since they apparently can use AI or post copy-paste responses only when it's not the user complaining (or they just complain about locked hardware = no support burden then, these complaints are ok). Doesn't me losing my brain due to corporations treating me like a toddler count as a broader systemic risk to you? Probably not, but how about me AND YOU losing consumer choice?