3 ms·

I'd love a label like that which tells me when an app has had thought put into it

by n4r9 5d ago

aogaili 5d ago
You can put a lot of thoughts while using LLMs. You are equating manual coding with more thinking, which has proven to be not the case given that it is mostly automated.
- n4r9 5d ago
  It's possible to code thoughtfully with LLMs, but the process strongly encourages superficial signing-off on its activities.
  - aogaili 5d ago
    It did make it easier to generate thoughtless apps, I agree. But this process is new, and not every AI assisted app is thoughtless. In fact, I'd argue that if a person put more thoughts and amplify their abilities with AI assisted coding, then the total sum of mental labour exceed that of any manually coded app by huge margins. I'm not sure about this particular app, haven't looked into it. But I was merely commenting about the mindset of the parent comment.
- justacrow 5d ago
  If the developer can't be bothered to not make it look vibecoded I assume there's a minimal amount of thought and effort put into it. And in that case I'm not going to bother using it.
  - aogaili 5d ago
    Maybe this developer didn't bother I didn't even look frankly. My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs. In fact, I'd argue you can go way further and deeper than any manual coded application paired with AI assistance. But maybe this instance is not the case. But even if it turns out to be not the case, if the app does work and serves the utility you are after, then why not using it? People use many things in everyday life without thinking about what thought was put into it..in fact, most people don't think at all about what it took to build anything, and how it was built.. Do you really know or care if the shoes you wearing was handmade or built by a factory in china using robots? you probably don't know and don't care.
    - stetrain 5d ago
      > My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs. If that were the case here, then a user of the app probably would not come away with the impression that it was a "very much LLM-aided app." You're talking about how LLMs can be used in such a way that they help production of an app but remain invisible to the end user. But the beginning of this thread was someone using the app and coming away with the impression that it was heavily LLM influenced, which suggests that it was not done thoughtfully and did not remain invisible to the user.
      - aogaili 5d ago
        I get it, and frankly I don't know about this app. But the parent comment positioned itself against all "LLM-aided apps", the author didn't say a slop or poorly coded. And even if it looks like LLM coded, we still can't tell about the level of thought that went into it. Developers had many poorly coded UIs and yet the apps functioned well and served it's purpose. So the entire chain of reasoning is a form stereotype forming. Looking at this specific app, I can see that the author thought about the marketing/business and functionality, more than other alternatives, maybe because they had more mental bandwdith to do so.
        n4r9 5d ago
        To be fair, I personally only said that I'd like a label that indicates whether an app has "had thought put into it". That could involve e.g. another human reviewing the code and architecture and giving it a stamp.
        aogaili 5d ago
        You are right - my apologies. It could be a good idea given that we will end up with so many doubts and comments like this.
        clear0250 5d ago
        This comment and some of your other ones are giving off AI smells...
- alerighi 5d ago
  If one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually. If you are an experienced programmer (not someone that did an online course and calls like this) with YEARS of experience in coding in multiple languages really, the only real limitation is the speed at which you can type on the keyboard, that is usually way faster than what the even good LLM is able to emit tokens. This not considering token expense: if we see at the point of view of the company, it's way cheaper an experienced programmer, that in my country costs you 4000 a month tax included, than the tokens that an LLM would use to do the same job. On top of that there is the environmental impact of all of this, and why they are almost making me not use my car because it's euro 5 and now there is euro 6, these AI companies are emitting tons of CO2 to do stuff that human beings can do with 1/1000 the energy that these AI companies use.
  - aogaili 5d ago
    "if one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually." I mean, have truly tried? do others thing this is true? I'm truly astonished if that is majority experience, I think we need to get surveys on this.
    - krapp 5d ago
      The entire draw of coding with LLMs is that you can generate programs without knowing how to code. That's literally what "vibe coding" is. Why would it surprise you that people who do know how to code, and don't hate the process the way a lot of AI enthusiasts seem to, might not find them useful? You'll find plenty of people on HN who have this experience,but they just tend to be ridiculed or told they just haven't used AI correctly or enough. Admitting you don't use LLMs for everything, or god forbid at all, is like telling Christians you don't want to be saved.
    - n4r9 5d ago
- ImPostingOnHN 5d ago
  It sounds more like you are equating a totally-vibe coded product with no verified code, with a product thoughtfully written by a human with LLM assistance.
phoghed 5d ago
Bro wants the government to tell him when someone tried hard on an app, smdh Damn FDA organic app users are mad about this one
- aogaili 5d ago
  People flag/downvote what they don't like without explaining much, and a lot of it are just feeling based/snap reactions. HN is not that rational of a discussion form but there are some good articles/comments so worth being around.

I'd love a label like that which tells me when an app has had thought put into it

by n4r9 5d ago

I'd love a label like that which tells me when an app has had thought put into it

You can put a lot of thoughts while using LLMs. You are equating manual coding with more thinking, which has proven to be not the case given that it is mostly automated.

n4r9 5d ago
It's possible to code thoughtfully with LLMs, but the process strongly encourages superficial signing-off on its activities.
- aogaili 5d ago
  It did make it easier to generate thoughtless apps, I agree. But this process is new, and not every AI assisted app is thoughtless. In fact, I'd argue that if a person put more thoughts and amplify their abilities with AI assisted coding, then the total sum of mental labour exceed that of any manually coded app by huge margins. I'm not sure about this particular app, haven't looked into it. But I was merely commenting about the mindset of the parent comment.
justacrow 5d ago
If the developer can't be bothered to not make it look vibecoded I assume there's a minimal amount of thought and effort put into it. And in that case I'm not going to bother using it.
- aogaili 5d ago
  Maybe this developer didn't bother I didn't even look frankly. My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs. In fact, I'd argue you can go way further and deeper than any manual coded application paired with AI assistance. But maybe this instance is not the case. But even if it turns out to be not the case, if the app does work and serves the utility you are after, then why not using it? People use many things in everyday life without thinking about what thought was put into it..in fact, most people don't think at all about what it took to build anything, and how it was built.. Do you really know or care if the shoes you wearing was handmade or built by a factory in china using robots? you probably don't know and don't care.
  - stetrain 5d ago
    > My point was that you can have very well designed and thoughted apps with LLMs. If that were the case here, then a user of the app probably would not come away with the impression that it was a "very much LLM-aided app." You're talking about how LLMs can be used in such a way that they help production of an app but remain invisible to the end user. But the beginning of this thread was someone using the app and coming away with the impression that it was heavily LLM influenced, which suggests that it was not done thoughtfully and did not remain invisible to the user.
    - aogaili 5d ago
      I get it, and frankly I don't know about this app. But the parent comment positioned itself against all "LLM-aided apps", the author didn't say a slop or poorly coded. And even if it looks like LLM coded, we still can't tell about the level of thought that went into it. Developers had many poorly coded UIs and yet the apps functioned well and served it's purpose. So the entire chain of reasoning is a form stereotype forming. Looking at this specific app, I can see that the author thought about the marketing/business and functionality, more than other alternatives, maybe because they had more mental bandwdith to do so.
      - n4r9 5d ago
        To be fair, I personally only said that I'd like a label that indicates whether an app has "had thought put into it". That could involve e.g. another human reviewing the code and architecture and giving it a stamp.
        aogaili 5d ago
        You are right - my apologies. It could be a good idea given that we will end up with so many doubts and comments like this.
        clear0250 5d ago
        This comment and some of your other ones are giving off AI smells...
alerighi 5d ago
If one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually. If you are an experienced programmer (not someone that did an online course and calls like this) with YEARS of experience in coding in multiple languages really, the only real limitation is the speed at which you can type on the keyboard, that is usually way faster than what the even good LLM is able to emit tokens. This not considering token expense: if we see at the point of view of the company, it's way cheaper an experienced programmer, that in my country costs you 4000 a month tax included, than the tokens that an LLM would use to do the same job. On top of that there is the environmental impact of all of this, and why they are almost making me not use my car because it's euro 5 and now there is euro 6, these AI companies are emitting tons of CO2 to do stuff that human beings can do with 1/1000 the energy that these AI companies use.
- aogaili 5d ago
  "if one person knows how to code, they don't need an LLM. I've tried using all of them on my job, and I will give them a second chance time by time (to see if the claims made by these big tech hold up) and ALL of the time I've didn't noticed any speedup compared to coding manually." I mean, have truly tried? do others thing this is true? I'm truly astonished if that is majority experience, I think we need to get surveys on this.
  - krapp 5d ago
    The entire draw of coding with LLMs is that you can generate programs without knowing how to code. That's literally what "vibe coding" is. Why would it surprise you that people who do know how to code, and don't hate the process the way a lot of AI enthusiasts seem to, might not find them useful? You'll find plenty of people on HN who have this experience,but they just tend to be ridiculed or told they just haven't used AI correctly or enough. Admitting you don't use LLMs for everything, or god forbid at all, is like telling Christians you don't want to be saved.
  - n4r9 5d ago
ImPostingOnHN 5d ago
It sounds more like you are equating a totally-vibe coded product with no verified code, with a product thoughtfully written by a human with LLM assistance.

phoghed 5d ago

Bro wants the government to tell him when someone tried hard on an app, smdh Damn FDA organic app users are mad about this one

aogaili 5d ago
People flag/downvote what they don't like without explaining much, and a lot of it are just feeling based/snap reactions. HN is not that rational of a discussion form but there are some good articles/comments so worth being around.