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The EU has become ever more dependent on the US in the past few years, notably on energy and AI. There is a lot of noise on what you mention but the reality is

The EU has become ever more dependent on the US in the past few years, notably on energy and AI. There is a lot of noise on what you mention but the reality is rather different.

disgruntledphd2 12d ago
> The EU has become ever more dependent on the US in the past few years, notably on energy and AI. Energy yes, particularly since the Iran war started. AI, not really. Like most Europeans are using US models, but the switching costs are so low here that they could easily swap these out for Chinese models. It's the cloud/hyperscaler dependencies that are the real problems here.
- mytailorisrich 12d ago
  Yes, they run US models on US hardware and there is no alternative. In principle there are indeed Chinese models, but in practice there are also political considerations. Europe pretty much does not exist in AI and the political considerations at this point push it towards overwhelming dependency on the US.
  - croes 12d ago
    US hardware with chips made in Taiwan created with European lithography systems?
    - mytailorisrich 12d ago
      Chips developed and controlled by the US. Taiwan is controlled by the US. Europe has no leverage. Europe does not exist in AI. That is the sad truth, no need to try to pick hole in reality... It's quite healthy to listen to EU noise less because otherwise people tend to drink the kool-aid and believe that the EU (and Europe) is anywhere in most strategic developments (AI and related chips are particularly dire but also missed the boat on EV, struggling on renewables, nowhere in smartphones, etc). Yes, there is Arm so that's that (not in the EU).
      - croes 12d ago
        It’s mutual dependency. The developed and controlled chips can’t be made without EU lithography. And it doesn’t have to be a bad thing to not exist in AI given all the damage that is done by AI.
croes 12d ago
Maybe we shouldn’t act like the US aren’t dependent on the rest of the world. Let’s look at US debt

The EU has become ever more dependent on the US in the past few years, notably on energy and AI. There is a lot of noise on what you mention but the reality is rather different.

disgruntledphd2 12d ago

> The EU has become ever more dependent on the US in the past few years, notably on energy and AI. Energy yes, particularly since the Iran war started. AI, not really. Like most Europeans are using US models, but the switching costs are so low here that they could easily swap these out for Chinese models. It's the cloud/hyperscaler dependencies that are the real problems here.

mytailorisrich 12d ago
Yes, they run US models on US hardware and there is no alternative. In principle there are indeed Chinese models, but in practice there are also political considerations. Europe pretty much does not exist in AI and the political considerations at this point push it towards overwhelming dependency on the US.
- croes 12d ago
  US hardware with chips made in Taiwan created with European lithography systems?
  - mytailorisrich 12d ago
    Chips developed and controlled by the US. Taiwan is controlled by the US. Europe has no leverage. Europe does not exist in AI. That is the sad truth, no need to try to pick hole in reality... It's quite healthy to listen to EU noise less because otherwise people tend to drink the kool-aid and believe that the EU (and Europe) is anywhere in most strategic developments (AI and related chips are particularly dire but also missed the boat on EV, struggling on renewables, nowhere in smartphones, etc). Yes, there is Arm so that's that (not in the EU).
    - croes 12d ago
      It’s mutual dependency. The developed and controlled chips can’t be made without EU lithography. And it doesn’t have to be a bad thing to not exist in AI given all the damage that is done by AI.

croes 12d ago

Maybe we shouldn’t act like the US aren’t dependent on the rest of the world. Let’s look at US debt