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Being easily verifiable does not elevate something to the level of being a grand challenge. It really drives home the point that biology is not math or coding.

Being easily verifiable does not elevate something to the level of being a grand challenge. It really drives home the point that biology is not math or coding. I guess to me the grandiosity here feels fake and unearned - like they vibe slopped it together without much input in the way of deep thought or expertise. For example, synthesize arbitrary dna sequences > 3000 nt in length with error rate < 0.001 at > 95% purity. Easily verifiable, beyond the frontier, and generally useful.

phreeza 13d ago
I agree with you there are other much grander challenges, but apart from that I don't think the list is horrible, because as I said it's incentive-aligned with the current moment we are in. Your suggestion would definitely be a good addition to the list for sure. I think some of the items on the list are also way less likely to be worked on (like cryogenics) than others, because they really require some heavy infrastructure to iterate. My money for which of these gets cracked with help of an AI would be rubisco, that can be quite effectively worked on in a closed loop lab fashion with a standard lab or CRO.
pixl97 13d ago
>that biology is not math or coding Biology is a really really big field. Many problems in biology are that of math and coding. Just as a simple example look at the golden ratio in living organisms. Biology follows a lot of different algorithms because they are energy efficient and come with massive secondary benefits.
- root_axis 13d ago
  > Just as a simple example look at the golden ratio in living organisms What is this example meant to illustrate?
  - SiempreViernes 13d ago
    I think it illustrates that there are cool things to find beneath the lamp post of math and coding.
    - pixl97 13d ago
      Not just cool things. But real things that effect physics.
  - pixl97 13d ago
    The golden ratio is one of those things you can study for years and be a amazed by. >The golden ratio (≈ 1.618) and its related golden angle (137.5°) show up in nature because they maximize space, exposure, and flow. The golden ratio is an algorithm, but it is also a natural law that systems of many different scales follow. Wherever we look we find examples of it. Without this algorithm the world is a much harder place to explain. What many scientists starting to look for is these algorithms we have not identified in natural systems as an explanatory means of their workings. Also because they are algorithms they are things we can put into computer systems to increase efficiency, or may naturally emerge from evolutionary learning systems like AI in what we call emegence.
    - esafak 13d ago
      The golden ratio in nature is numerology. Biology is beautiful enough in itself without having the golden ratio shoehorned into it. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10792139/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10792139/
      - pixl97 13d ago
        Did you even read what you linked to, or did you just read the headline? >There is no convincing evidence that the golden ratio is linked to idealized human proportions or facial beauty. There is currently no evidence to support the use of the golden ratio in orthognathic or facial aesthetic/reconstructive surgical planning or analysis of results. This is about peoples faces. What I listed was about things like available surface area for things like chemical reactions and mixing, you know things that are mathematically calculatable. Much in the same manner a hexagon is an optimal low energy shape, hence we see lots of them in nature too.
      - rolph 12d ago
        agreed, the golden ratio in the case of biological structure is a consequence of geometric progression of progressive assembly, its not a driver. the better direction in my opinion, is the mutual reinforcement of coupled dynamic systems, that ends up giving us metabolism.

phreeza 13d ago

I agree with you there are other much grander challenges, but apart from that I don't think the list is horrible, because as I said it's incentive-aligned with the current moment we are in. Your suggestion would definitely be a good addition to the list for sure. I think some of the items on the list are also way less likely to be worked on (like cryogenics) than others, because they really require some heavy infrastructure to iterate. My money for which of these gets cracked with help of an AI would be rubisco, that can be quite effectively worked on in a closed loop lab fashion with a standard lab or CRO.

pixl97 13d ago

>that biology is not math or coding Biology is a really really big field. Many problems in biology are that of math and coding. Just as a simple example look at the golden ratio in living organisms. Biology follows a lot of different algorithms because they are energy efficient and come with massive secondary benefits.

root_axis 13d ago
> Just as a simple example look at the golden ratio in living organisms What is this example meant to illustrate?
- SiempreViernes 13d ago
  I think it illustrates that there are cool things to find beneath the lamp post of math and coding.
  - pixl97 13d ago
    Not just cool things. But real things that effect physics.
- pixl97 13d ago
  The golden ratio is one of those things you can study for years and be a amazed by. >The golden ratio (≈ 1.618) and its related golden angle (137.5°) show up in nature because they maximize space, exposure, and flow. The golden ratio is an algorithm, but it is also a natural law that systems of many different scales follow. Wherever we look we find examples of it. Without this algorithm the world is a much harder place to explain. What many scientists starting to look for is these algorithms we have not identified in natural systems as an explanatory means of their workings. Also because they are algorithms they are things we can put into computer systems to increase efficiency, or may naturally emerge from evolutionary learning systems like AI in what we call emegence.
  - esafak 13d ago
    The golden ratio in nature is numerology. Biology is beautiful enough in itself without having the golden ratio shoehorned into it. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10792139/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10792139/
    - pixl97 13d ago
      Did you even read what you linked to, or did you just read the headline? >There is no convincing evidence that the golden ratio is linked to idealized human proportions or facial beauty. There is currently no evidence to support the use of the golden ratio in orthognathic or facial aesthetic/reconstructive surgical planning or analysis of results. This is about peoples faces. What I listed was about things like available surface area for things like chemical reactions and mixing, you know things that are mathematically calculatable. Much in the same manner a hexagon is an optimal low energy shape, hence we see lots of them in nature too.
    - rolph 12d ago
      agreed, the golden ratio in the case of biological structure is a consequence of geometric progression of progressive assembly, its not a driver. the better direction in my opinion, is the mutual reinforcement of coupled dynamic systems, that ends up giving us metabolism.