4 ms·

Interstingly it is the same in german, you would say "Er ist Arzt" not "Er ist ein Arzt". Which makes me wonder why english uses an indefinite article there, si

by thayne 15d ago

Interstingly it is the same in german, you would say "Er ist Arzt" not "Er ist ein Arzt". Which makes me wonder why english uses an indefinite article there, since it doesn't seem to be either germanic or romantic in origin.

1-more 15d ago
This was the root of the overblown Kennedy gaffe where he said “ich bin ein Berliner” instead of “ich bin berliner.”
- arlcode 15d ago
  The thing is that doesn't even sound wrong and I don't think any native speaker would object to the article when used with a place of origin/belonging in a speech. It emphasizes the statement if you ask me. Only many years after learning of the speech I read online that it's allegedly "a gaffe".
  - ifloop 14d ago
    It's uncommon, but without thinking about it, I wouldn't have noticed that I wouldn't usually add the "ein" here. I think it emphasizes the affiliation to the group of people.
- hasley 15d ago
  To me, "Ich bin Berliner" sounds relatively neutral, or like a short statement. "Ich bin ein Berliner" sounds a bit less direct or a bit softer to me because you state that you are just one of the citizens of Berlin. But this may be just my feeling. (In case you put the emphasis on "ein", you would clearly emphasize that you are just one of the many Berlin citizens.)
- zelphirkalt 15d ago
  In this specific case the "ein" emphasizes/expresses that he "is one of us" to the Berliners. Not a gaffe at all, in my opinion.
  - AdamN 14d ago
    Is it possible that after the JFK speech and exposure to English this mode of using 'ein' actually became more acceptable? If not I wonder what drove this story.
    - tsimionescu 14d ago
      I think it's much more likely this story was spread by native English speakers who learned German as a second language in school. It has all the hallmarks of a teacher's pedantry to me. That said, blunders do occasionally happen even at this level. During Bill Clinton's visit in Romania (the first time a US president visited the country after the Revolution), he said in a huge public speech that the American people stands shoulder to shoulder with the Romanians - which the translator for the public broadcast translated as "șold la șold", which sounds similar, but means "hip to hip" (the correct translation, which is also a literal translation as the expression exists in Romanian as well, is "umăr la umăr").
    - tame3902 14d ago
      Wikipedia has a lengthy section about this 'gaffe', including the likely origin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Urban_legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Urban_leg...
rpadovani 15d ago
Eh, Italian has it tho. "(Lui) è un dottore", "(Io) sono un dottore". "Un" is the indefinite article. Subject is usually dropped, thus the brackets
proxyscore 14d ago
German speaker here, you can say either and they're both equally correct, don't pretent to be some sort linguistic savant here lmfao

by thayne 15d ago

1-more 15d ago

This was the root of the overblown Kennedy gaffe where he said “ich bin ein Berliner” instead of “ich bin berliner.”

arlcode 15d ago
The thing is that doesn't even sound wrong and I don't think any native speaker would object to the article when used with a place of origin/belonging in a speech. It emphasizes the statement if you ask me. Only many years after learning of the speech I read online that it's allegedly "a gaffe".
- ifloop 14d ago
  It's uncommon, but without thinking about it, I wouldn't have noticed that I wouldn't usually add the "ein" here. I think it emphasizes the affiliation to the group of people.
hasley 15d ago
To me, "Ich bin Berliner" sounds relatively neutral, or like a short statement. "Ich bin ein Berliner" sounds a bit less direct or a bit softer to me because you state that you are just one of the citizens of Berlin. But this may be just my feeling. (In case you put the emphasis on "ein", you would clearly emphasize that you are just one of the many Berlin citizens.)
zelphirkalt 15d ago
In this specific case the "ein" emphasizes/expresses that he "is one of us" to the Berliners. Not a gaffe at all, in my opinion.
- AdamN 14d ago
  Is it possible that after the JFK speech and exposure to English this mode of using 'ein' actually became more acceptable? If not I wonder what drove this story.
  - tsimionescu 14d ago
    I think it's much more likely this story was spread by native English speakers who learned German as a second language in school. It has all the hallmarks of a teacher's pedantry to me. That said, blunders do occasionally happen even at this level. During Bill Clinton's visit in Romania (the first time a US president visited the country after the Revolution), he said in a huge public speech that the American people stands shoulder to shoulder with the Romanians - which the translator for the public broadcast translated as "șold la șold", which sounds similar, but means "hip to hip" (the correct translation, which is also a literal translation as the expression exists in Romanian as well, is "umăr la umăr").
  - tame3902 14d ago
    Wikipedia has a lengthy section about this 'gaffe', including the likely origin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Urban_legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Urban_leg...

rpadovani 15d ago

Eh, Italian has it tho. "(Lui) è un dottore", "(Io) sono un dottore". "Un" is the indefinite article. Subject is usually dropped, thus the brackets

proxyscore 14d ago

German speaker here, you can say either and they're both equally correct, don't pretent to be some sort linguistic savant here lmfao