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Even languages that have both indefinite and definite articles use them slightly differently, for example Spanish, German, English and Hungarian have them, but

Even languages that have both indefinite and definite articles use them slightly differently, for example Spanish, German, English and Hungarian have them, but the rules of their use is somewhat different, though the main idea is similar. It takes time to learn things like "at school" vs "at the school", "to school", "to the school", "I know English", not "I know the English", but "I know the English language" etc. etc. It's obviously easy when you speak it natively, but it just happens to be a certain way and could plausible be in another way too, as other languages show.

nutjob2 13d ago
The funny thing is is that all the examples you gave are correct English. [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school [I learned it] "at the school" - I learned it at school, the one that was referenced "I know the English" - I know the English people "I know the English language" - I know the English language (specifically) The point being that articles do a lot of work. They're not just decoration whereby there is some arbitrary correct form or rule. It's a matter of what you want to say. But in the third and forth sentences 'English' is both a collective noun and the name of a language which is just a coincidence.
- hackyhacky 13d ago
  > [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school > [I learned it] "at the school" - I learned it at school, the one that was referenced That's not the distinction that the OP is making. If you say "I am at school", it means you are a student, you attend school. If you say "I am at THE school", it means you are physically at the school building, without specifying whether you are a student. Both of those options are different from saying "at a school." See also "prison", "work", "bed". Similar distinction (in UK English, not so much American English) with "in hospital" vs "in the hospital." As was pointed out, "I go to the dentist every year" doesn't necessarily mean a particular dentist; it just means some dentist, but we use the definite article anyway, because I guess we consider all dentists interchangeable? We don't use definite articles even when we are referring to a specific thing in specific phrases, such as "I went to Florida by [the] car." Then there's highly idiomatic use of articles with proper nouns. We say "Buckingham Palace" [no article] but "The Washington Monument" [definite article]. We talk about "The Rockies" [definite article] but "Mount Fuji" [no article]. "Germany" but "The United States." Sometimes we use the definite article when referring to to racial or ethnic groups, and sometimes we don't, and that choice can have complicated social implications ("The Blacks", anyone?). In short, if a native English speaker tells you that article use is straightforward, then they simply have not considered all the cases.
  - abraxas 12d ago
    Here I have no idea why in the last sentence you wrote "all the cases" even though cases is already plural. This is not covered by any of the rules people have been posting in this thread. I'm the GP who started the article usage discussion here.
    - hackyhacky 12d ago
      I have no idea why I shouldn't write "all the cases". What are you trying to say?
      - abraxas 12d ago
        The word "cases" is already plural. Why does it need an article in front of it? It's one of the usages that trip me up. Why isn't it just "all cases"?
        bonoboTP 12d ago
        It seems like a shortening of "all of the cases", but I'm not a native speaker.
        hackyhacky 12d ago
        We frequently use definite articles with plurals. It simply identifies a bounded or known set. * I understand all languages. -- unbounded set, applies to every language, everywhere * I understand all the languages. -- bounded set, applies to a known set of languages, i.e. specifically those languages which are supported by a particular program To be fair, I think "all cases" in this situation is also acceptable.
        danadam 12d ago
        To me, as non-native, it seems that it may be because the idea [1] of "cases" was already introduced. So, at the start of a conversation you would say: - The rules of a/the are simple. - Not really, if you think so, then you haven't considered _all cases_. There's this exception and there's that exception. [...] but: - The rules of a/the are simple. - Not really. There's this exception and there's that exception. [...] If you think the rules are simple, then you haven't considered _all the cases_. [1] but take what I write with a big grain of salt, I can't explain why I wrote "the idea" or "the start" and I'm not 100% sure if that's correct :)
- danadam 12d ago
  > The funny thing is is that all the examples you gave are correct English. > [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school According to most comments here this should be "at a school" then :)

nutjob2 13d ago

The funny thing is is that all the examples you gave are correct English. [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school [I learned it] "at the school" - I learned it at school, the one that was referenced "I know the English" - I know the English people "I know the English language" - I know the English language (specifically) The point being that articles do a lot of work. They're not just decoration whereby there is some arbitrary correct form or rule. It's a matter of what you want to say. But in the third and forth sentences 'English' is both a collective noun and the name of a language which is just a coincidence.

hackyhacky 13d ago
> [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school > [I learned it] "at the school" - I learned it at school, the one that was referenced That's not the distinction that the OP is making. If you say "I am at school", it means you are a student, you attend school. If you say "I am at THE school", it means you are physically at the school building, without specifying whether you are a student. Both of those options are different from saying "at a school." See also "prison", "work", "bed". Similar distinction (in UK English, not so much American English) with "in hospital" vs "in the hospital." As was pointed out, "I go to the dentist every year" doesn't necessarily mean a particular dentist; it just means some dentist, but we use the definite article anyway, because I guess we consider all dentists interchangeable? We don't use definite articles even when we are referring to a specific thing in specific phrases, such as "I went to Florida by [the] car." Then there's highly idiomatic use of articles with proper nouns. We say "Buckingham Palace" [no article] but "The Washington Monument" [definite article]. We talk about "The Rockies" [definite article] but "Mount Fuji" [no article]. "Germany" but "The United States." Sometimes we use the definite article when referring to to racial or ethnic groups, and sometimes we don't, and that choice can have complicated social implications ("The Blacks", anyone?). In short, if a native English speaker tells you that article use is straightforward, then they simply have not considered all the cases.
- abraxas 12d ago
  Here I have no idea why in the last sentence you wrote "all the cases" even though cases is already plural. This is not covered by any of the rules people have been posting in this thread. I'm the GP who started the article usage discussion here.
  - hackyhacky 12d ago
    I have no idea why I shouldn't write "all the cases". What are you trying to say?
    - abraxas 12d ago
      The word "cases" is already plural. Why does it need an article in front of it? It's one of the usages that trip me up. Why isn't it just "all cases"?
      - bonoboTP 12d ago
        It seems like a shortening of "all of the cases", but I'm not a native speaker.
      - hackyhacky 12d ago
        We frequently use definite articles with plurals. It simply identifies a bounded or known set. * I understand all languages. -- unbounded set, applies to every language, everywhere * I understand all the languages. -- bounded set, applies to a known set of languages, i.e. specifically those languages which are supported by a particular program To be fair, I think "all cases" in this situation is also acceptable.
      - danadam 12d ago
        To me, as non-native, it seems that it may be because the idea [1] of "cases" was already introduced. So, at the start of a conversation you would say: - The rules of a/the are simple. - Not really, if you think so, then you haven't considered _all cases_. There's this exception and there's that exception. [...] but: - The rules of a/the are simple. - Not really. There's this exception and there's that exception. [...] If you think the rules are simple, then you haven't considered _all the cases_. [1] but take what I write with a big grain of salt, I can't explain why I wrote "the idea" or "the start" and I'm not 100% sure if that's correct :)
danadam 12d ago
> The funny thing is is that all the examples you gave are correct English. > [I learned it] "at school" - I learned it at school, I'm not specifying which school According to most comments here this should be "at a school" then :)