3 ms·

Needless to say, I disagree that what Prof. Mantova is planning to do (digesting the proof and making it human-understandable) represents the "end of [mathemati

Needless to say, I disagree that what Prof. Mantova is planning to do (digesting the proof and making it human-understandable) represents the "end of [mathematicians'] career". Systematizing has always been a key part of human mathematical work, and tidying up a raw proof can be viewed as a kind of systematizing. My hope is also that Mantova and very possibly L'Innocente will get a substantial share of credit for their role in the resolution of this conjecture by Conway: the AI would not have embarked on this were it not for their prior work. So even human mathematicians with an inclination for more exploratory "problem solving" will have plenty to do in the future. (The story is actually not that different for the recent Navier-Stokes forced blowup result, which also built on key conceptual work from 2023 by Córdoba and Martinez-Zoroa.)

GPerson 7d ago
Luckily for these guys the problem is famous enough that giving some kind of credit for its resolution even makes sense at all. The vast majority of published work is not like this. There’s not going to be any credit divvied up to the thousands of people who’s work was probably involved in the recent formalization of FLT, which involved formalizing 300 thousand theorems.
- zozbot234 7d ago
  Kevin Buzzard has reportedly been working on a more systematized (i.e. leveraging a more modern approach) and human-targeted formalization of FLT. I certainly hope that his work continues and he gets the deserved credit. Of course there is also some possibility that it won't, and that would mean you have a point after all.
  - GPerson 7d ago
    You’re just mentioning established and famous people. What about the average people who are just going to get fucked for spending their lives trying to promote humanity, just to be rewarded with the risk of economic ruin and no job prospects?
    - zozbot234 7d ago
      If Mantova and L'Innocente (as well as Córdoba and Martinez-Zoroa) count as "famous people" now, I would say that their fame is quite deserved! Would you disagree that AI played a significant part in surfacing their work? Aside from that, I'm not really sure what to make of your comment. I do sympathize for the researchers who are at risk of having their ongoing work "scooped" by AI (and for all we know, this may even include Mantova and L'Innocente) but the way to address that is to still have "divying up" of relevant human credit.
      - GPerson 7d ago
        Kevin Buzzard is famous. You’re pedantically misinterpreting my comment to feel clever. You have nothing more to make of my comment because you don’t care to consider the actual problem here.
    - Xmd5a 7d ago
      I'm not working on some famous conjecture, just following my curiosity, and I think I found something (minor and specific) that should reignite a young mathematician's interest for work she did almost a decade ago, for a phd she never used (she left academia). I'm going to have flowers delivered to her, with a brief note explaining what I think I found and encouragement to resume her academic career and reach out to a her former co-authors.
    - bonoboTP 7d ago
      Keep doing things that people want to pay for. If this becomes impossible, the world will face a much broader political crisis than "mathematics careers". How concerned were you when manufacturing industries died in certain regions and jobs got wiped out? Or it only matters when it's academics?
      - GPerson 7d ago
        Yes I was concerned. That kind of projection is only possible in people who lack empathy. The math career is going to killed off 2-3 years before law and medicine and Wall Street banker. How does this make me more secure in any way?
- unified101 7d ago
  What's this obsession with credit. From elsewhere in the thread: > people spending their lives trying to promote humanity What does this even mean? Become a monk? They are credited with helping humanity.
  - GPerson 7d ago
    You have no idea how mathematics has progressed for thousands of years. How about having some humility and understanding the culture you’re cheering on the death of? It’s a goddamn credit based system.
    - Xmd5a 7d ago
      > the culture you’re cheering on the death of Ahaha. Flowers are the way to go.

GPerson 7d ago

Luckily for these guys the problem is famous enough that giving some kind of credit for its resolution even makes sense at all. The vast majority of published work is not like this. There’s not going to be any credit divvied up to the thousands of people who’s work was probably involved in the recent formalization of FLT, which involved formalizing 300 thousand theorems.

zozbot234 7d ago
Kevin Buzzard has reportedly been working on a more systematized (i.e. leveraging a more modern approach) and human-targeted formalization of FLT. I certainly hope that his work continues and he gets the deserved credit. Of course there is also some possibility that it won't, and that would mean you have a point after all.
- GPerson 7d ago
  You’re just mentioning established and famous people. What about the average people who are just going to get fucked for spending their lives trying to promote humanity, just to be rewarded with the risk of economic ruin and no job prospects?
  - zozbot234 7d ago
    If Mantova and L'Innocente (as well as Córdoba and Martinez-Zoroa) count as "famous people" now, I would say that their fame is quite deserved! Would you disagree that AI played a significant part in surfacing their work? Aside from that, I'm not really sure what to make of your comment. I do sympathize for the researchers who are at risk of having their ongoing work "scooped" by AI (and for all we know, this may even include Mantova and L'Innocente) but the way to address that is to still have "divying up" of relevant human credit.
    - GPerson 7d ago
      Kevin Buzzard is famous. You’re pedantically misinterpreting my comment to feel clever. You have nothing more to make of my comment because you don’t care to consider the actual problem here.
  - Xmd5a 7d ago
    I'm not working on some famous conjecture, just following my curiosity, and I think I found something (minor and specific) that should reignite a young mathematician's interest for work she did almost a decade ago, for a phd she never used (she left academia). I'm going to have flowers delivered to her, with a brief note explaining what I think I found and encouragement to resume her academic career and reach out to a her former co-authors.
  - bonoboTP 7d ago
    Keep doing things that people want to pay for. If this becomes impossible, the world will face a much broader political crisis than "mathematics careers". How concerned were you when manufacturing industries died in certain regions and jobs got wiped out? Or it only matters when it's academics?
    - GPerson 7d ago
      Yes I was concerned. That kind of projection is only possible in people who lack empathy. The math career is going to killed off 2-3 years before law and medicine and Wall Street banker. How does this make me more secure in any way?
unified101 7d ago
What's this obsession with credit. From elsewhere in the thread: > people spending their lives trying to promote humanity What does this even mean? Become a monk? They are credited with helping humanity.
- GPerson 7d ago
  You have no idea how mathematics has progressed for thousands of years. How about having some humility and understanding the culture you’re cheering on the death of? It’s a goddamn credit based system.
  - Xmd5a 7d ago
    > the culture you’re cheering on the death of Ahaha. Flowers are the way to go.