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Any given policy choice we make results in bad things happening to someone. War is just politics by other means. If we stand around and do nothing, maybe Iran k

by ericmay 18d ago

Any given policy choice we make results in bad things happening to someone. War is just politics by other means. If we stand around and do nothing, maybe Iran kills 5000 kids for being homosexual over the next few years? If we close all the coal mines a whole entire state goes on an opioid addiction. If we don’t close the coal mines the environment suffers and people die from pollution. If we don’t kill millions of Japanese soldiers maybe China is still a Japanese colony. Life is tough. There aren’t perfect answers. Cackling criticism from the safety of the couch doesn’t solve anything.

ceejayoz 18d ago
"We got rid of the people who prevent civilian casualties and a bunch of civilians died shortly thereafter" isn't the unpreventable random act of God you're trying to make it out to be. There are often not perfect answers in life. But there are definitely some wrong ones.
- ericmay 18d ago
  They aren’t the only people who prevent civilian casualties though. It also doesn’t prevent civilian casualties generally given that civilian casualties have occurred prior to this organization being disbanded. Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered. Should they set up a board that prevents their military from killing protestors in person with machine guns?
  - ceejayoz 18d ago
    > Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered. Iran is already one of the most heavily sanctioned countries on the planet. Do you want us to bomb them? Maybe kill their leadership? I'm sure it'll help. If you're genuinely interested in preventing mass civilian casualties, I can think of a country doing such a thing we've got a lot more leverage over, with quite a bit of weaponry we supply. The casual dismissal of Hegseth's clear actions to deprioritize civilian protection hints, I think, at how genuine that is.
    - ericmay 18d ago
      > The casual dismissal of Hegseth's clear actions to deprioritize civilian protection hints, I think, at how genuine that is. Why does it matter if a poorly made point is casually dismissed? Some drummed up organization isn’t in the room doing the drone strike or gathering the intelligence or making the call in the heat of the moment. Those folks have responsibility too, but mistakes in war happen. > Iran is already one of the most heavily sanctioned countries on the planet. Do you want us to bomb them? Maybe kill their leadership? I'm sure it'll help. Well we could spend more time focusing on their crimes. Countries around the world could contribute to defeating their autocratic regime.
  - clipsy 18d ago
    Whataboutism is a sign that you've lost the argument in the best of cases, but it's particularly disgusting to attempt to use it to distract from the blood of a hundred murdered children on your own country's hands. Two wrongs do not, in fact, make a right. The lesser of two evils is still, in fact, evil. Be a better person.
    - ericmay 18d ago
      Don’t care for the moral grandstanding. Save that for the dead at the hands of Iran’s murderous regime.
      - ceejayoz 18d ago
        > Don’t care for the moral grandstanding. Followed immediately by moral grandstanding. Art.
        ericmay 17d ago
        It was a factual statement. If you want to clutch your pearls I think you should stand next to the parents of the dead murdered at the hands of Iran and do it there. Here you can read about a couple more children (20 year olds are children to my eyes) in the news as recently as today: https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-twin-sisters-facing-the-wrath-of-irans-crackdown-81adce68?st=kAGDvC&reflink=article_copyURL_share https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-twin-sisters-facin...
        ceejayoz 17d ago
        > It was a factual statement. How convenient. Everyone else is grandstanding. Yours is just the truth.
        ericmay 17d ago
        Being right tends to lead to a more convenient life, in my experience.
  - xethos 18d ago
    > Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered If America wants to play World Police they need to be squeaky clean. Nobody likes a dirty cop. That is the point that's being made, that is the standard America is falling further away from, and that's why Whataboutism isn't the strong argument you think it is.
    - ericmay 17d ago
      We don’t need to be squeaky clean. You’re just inventing an impossibly high standard there. I’d argue we actually are squeaky clean when it comes to warfare, tactics, policies, procedures, and beliefs.

by ericmay 18d ago

ceejayoz 18d ago

"We got rid of the people who prevent civilian casualties and a bunch of civilians died shortly thereafter" isn't the unpreventable random act of God you're trying to make it out to be. There are often not perfect answers in life. But there are definitely some wrong ones.

ericmay 18d ago
They aren’t the only people who prevent civilian casualties though. It also doesn’t prevent civilian casualties generally given that civilian casualties have occurred prior to this organization being disbanded. Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered. Should they set up a board that prevents their military from killing protestors in person with machine guns?
- ceejayoz 18d ago
  > Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered. Iran is already one of the most heavily sanctioned countries on the planet. Do you want us to bomb them? Maybe kill their leadership? I'm sure it'll help. If you're genuinely interested in preventing mass civilian casualties, I can think of a country doing such a thing we've got a lot more leverage over, with quite a bit of weaponry we supply. The casual dismissal of Hegseth's clear actions to deprioritize civilian protection hints, I think, at how genuine that is.
  - ericmay 18d ago
    > The casual dismissal of Hegseth's clear actions to deprioritize civilian protection hints, I think, at how genuine that is. Why does it matter if a poorly made point is casually dismissed? Some drummed up organization isn’t in the room doing the drone strike or gathering the intelligence or making the call in the heat of the moment. Those folks have responsibility too, but mistakes in war happen. > Iran is already one of the most heavily sanctioned countries on the planet. Do you want us to bomb them? Maybe kill their leadership? I'm sure it'll help. Well we could spend more time focusing on their crimes. Countries around the world could contribute to defeating their autocratic regime.
- clipsy 18d ago
  Whataboutism is a sign that you've lost the argument in the best of cases, but it's particularly disgusting to attempt to use it to distract from the blood of a hundred murdered children on your own country's hands. Two wrongs do not, in fact, make a right. The lesser of two evils is still, in fact, evil. Be a better person.
  - ericmay 18d ago
    Don’t care for the moral grandstanding. Save that for the dead at the hands of Iran’s murderous regime.
    - ceejayoz 18d ago
      > Don’t care for the moral grandstanding. Followed immediately by moral grandstanding. Art.
      - ericmay 17d ago
        It was a factual statement. If you want to clutch your pearls I think you should stand next to the parents of the dead murdered at the hands of Iran and do it there. Here you can read about a couple more children (20 year olds are children to my eyes) in the news as recently as today: https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-twin-sisters-facing-the-wrath-of-irans-crackdown-81adce68?st=kAGDvC&reflink=article_copyURL_share https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-twin-sisters-facin...
        ceejayoz 17d ago
        > It was a factual statement. How convenient. Everyone else is grandstanding. Yours is just the truth.
        ericmay 17d ago
        Being right tends to lead to a more convenient life, in my experience.
- xethos 18d ago
  > Anyway let’s talk about the 30,000+ people Iran has murdered If America wants to play World Police they need to be squeaky clean. Nobody likes a dirty cop. That is the point that's being made, that is the standard America is falling further away from, and that's why Whataboutism isn't the strong argument you think it is.
  - ericmay 17d ago
    We don’t need to be squeaky clean. You’re just inventing an impossibly high standard there. I’d argue we actually are squeaky clean when it comes to warfare, tactics, policies, procedures, and beliefs.