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I have been to a couple of CCC events in my late teens'ish. Around 26C3. Over all can recommend, at least as a groups. I used it to meet some online friends fo

• heipei 9d ago
  That's just Germany for ya. Source: Am German
  • vrganj 9d ago
    As an Austrian, I agree with this German :-)
  • CalRobert 9d ago
    Are the Dutch meet-ups better? Wanted to get to why2025 but couldn’t.
    • edschofield 9d ago
      I had a great time at PyData Amsterdam last year. Terrific people!
    • teekert 9d ago
      I always like Fosdem (in Belgium, very close.)
    • hp197 9d ago
      They are run by different people, though there is a lot of cross contamination and groups going to both. I think the real difference is the setup, CCC is in a exhibition hall, while events like WHY are on a field and require you to camp. In that regard, you can compare CCCamp (what is different from CCC) more with WHY.
      • mitxela 8d ago
        also Electromagnetic Field in the UK, and all the smaller camps
  • julcol 9d ago
    A shame, as a Spaniard my German boss always said that I was more German than him...never sure as to take it flattering or otherwise. Of course he said if I was to be a German I would be from Berlin....apparently those folks can make a public budget work. This was around the financial crisis. Not this one upcoming, the last one.
    • KellyCriterion 9d ago
      ...maybe he wasnt from Germany but from another country from DACH region? :-D
    • HSO 9d ago
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    • Krasnol 9d ago
      Being German and being German from Berlin are not the same thing. I'd take the Berlin thing as a compliment. The German thing alone wouldn't be one.
  • em-bee 9d ago
    while that may be average german behavior, and while that is the reason i didn't enjoy living in germany i have been to many german tech events and i have to say that they are usually not the average germans there. well, i was mainly at FOSS events, so maybe the FOSS community is what makes it different.
• derrida 9d ago
  > someone I met almost went into a rage every time he saw a camera. The rage may be too much but the taboo on taking photo that is real and cultural normal that will be enforced or made to feel embarrassed for doing (i.e. 'lets not be the stasi'). That's the cultural norm of there and that scene. You visited from the states, correct? Bay area but the guess "small negative experience" - the idea of we are going around experiencing things and our life is a product of these experiences we consume and interpersonal politics - that's very california "the personal is the political" or that it's some how a consumption experience we "have" and who we "are" is coloured by these "experiences" etc (a fish in the water "what is water?") One thing in German culture I very appreciate (as australian) is the "polite complaining" as in - you know a German cares if they will share with you what is wrong (and then they will have solution) as Australian we just complain about the big things (but never on your mates or people on your level) hehe "the government" etc - German - politely complain (and here's the patch) etc hehe In both cases it's a sort of affection or closeness if they tell you what they really think it's not seen negative it's seen like 'of course we have feelings good and bad' etc All generalising of course. This could I see easily clash with american culture where often it's positivity all the time and it's seen taboo to say something bad - as if it's letting down the 'team' or it must be personal again 'you' or something - where as kinda truthfulness and integrity seen as the thing there - say as it is or as feel etc Also another thing you might notice (probably less in Hamburg but in Berlin or something) in winter you want to go for a swim - that's the spa. Everyone is naked. This can come a shock to, say, a culture like the US that had the puritans - that people being naked is not sexualised any way. Actually the US because the norm is "naked" = "naked fun" that can lead to perhaps the most confusing cultural mishap. This might be related to photos also. For instance - in Australia it's increasingly less common people sunbath naked. In east europe and nordics - being naked in spa is just common. Also: new years eve - they try to blow up everything. In a civilised city it blew my mind to see folks firing guns in the air. Yes! There's some differences. Saying that: there's assholes everywhere and don't let the 5-20% allocation of asshole influence your opinion of the 80% of the cool calm quiet Hmmm... this comment is long... I may be the asshole. Ok, Ciao
  • antonvs 9d ago
    > the idea of we are going around experiencing things and our life is a product of these experiences we consume and interpersonal politics - that's very california "the personal is the political" That's a very superficial reduction of the meaning of that phrase. It's worth reading the original 1969 essay with that title: https://www.carolhanisch.org/CHwritings/PIP.html https://www.carolhanisch.org/CHwritings/PIP.html This quote might help understand the context: > The bad things that are said about us as women are either myths (women are stupid), tactics women use to struggle individually (women are bitches), or are actually things that we want to carry into the new society and want men to share too (women are sensitive, emotional). Women as oppressed people act out of necessity (act dumb in the presence of men), not out of choice. Women have developed great shuffling techniques for their own survival (look pretty and giggle to get or keep a job or man) which should be used when necessary until such time as the power of unity can take its place. Women are smart not to struggle alone (as are blacks and workers). It is no worse to be in the home than in the rat race of the job world. They are both bad. Women, like blacks, workers, must stop blaming ourselves for our “failures.” The author was dealing with and responding to very real oppression, and pointing out in part that day-to-day interactions were consequences of, and contributors to, that oppression. That's one sense in which "the personal is political." The introduction also points out where the overall insight came from: > However, many on the SCEF [Southern Conference Educational Fund] staff, both men and women, ended up joining the criticism of women getting together in consciousness-raising groups to discuss their own oppression as “[navel]-gazing” and “personal therapy”—and certainly “not political.” > They could sometimes admit that women were oppressed (but only by “the system”) and said that we should have equal pay for equal work, and some other “rights.” But they belittled us no end for trying to bring our so-called “personal problems” into the public arena—especially “all those body issues” like sex, appearance, and abortion. Our demands that men share the housework and childcare were likewise deemed a personal problem between a woman and her individual man. In that context, the personal was political in a very concrete, direct sense.
• ginko 9d ago
  I was walking about 34c3 with an old medium format folding camera and mainly got nice comments. I did try to avoid getting people in shots though.
  • em-bee 9d ago
    because with that kind of camera you are showing that photography is your hobby/passion and not just trying to shoot pictures of people who don't want to be photographed. (there was a conference recently where you could choose a different color lanyard indicating whether you didn't want to be photographed or whether you didn't mind. i think a very good approach to the issue. don't take photos of anyone with a red lanyard)
• MomsAVoxell 9d ago
  I’ve been a hacker since the Cap’n Crunch days, I’ve been involved with many hackerspaces around the world, used to sit at the pay phones in Union Station waiting for distant calls, some forgotten first Friday of the month .. and all I can say, anecdotally, is that this death by a thousand cuts is par for the course. Hacker culture has been co-opted by a broad spectrum of folks - and a big part of the value of CCC is navigating that spectrum. I’ve met plenty of folks that are annoying as fuck in this scene - but I’ve also met plenty of folks who are just great. As for the camera thing - Germans have an aversion to being held accountable for their actions in public. It is a deep-seated fear of consequences born from a culture that literally thought it was acceptable, not so long ago, to spy on ones neighbors. They cram themselves into boxes upon boxes and live on top of 2000 other people they want nothing to do with. Just remind them, public photography is not a crime, and that there is no right to privacy in the public sphere, and why don’t they just smile and enjoy the fact that they are frozen in time on some strangers device, just like a strangers memory they have no right to erase. This is the needed context.
  • dudefeliciano 9d ago
    I think Germany is not the same as the US in regards to expectations of privacy in public when it comes to photography. Also there are plenty of signs and warnings at CCC to respect privacy and not take pics without consent…
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    • wongarsu 9d ago
      Yes, Germany absolutely has a right to privacy in the public sphere It's a nuanced right that has to be weighted against other rights and societal benefits. On the street it's usually easy: your picture can contain crowds or people who are there incidentally, but if you point the camera at a person you need their consent. But at a gathering like the CCC even being an identifiable member of the crowd might create issues for people, and you have to take that into account as photographer (both ethically and legally)
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• pimeys 9d ago
  > One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic, because I was wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh. Yep, and tell that to anybody who got either kicked out of the country or lost their livelihood by commenting against the Palestinian genocide in the social media.
  • dijit 9d ago
    I don't believe this happened. It's very easy to get into actual dehumanising rhetoric and genocidal slogans ("from the river to the sea"); but nobody actually cares enough to fire you for voicing your opinion on a middle eastern conflict. Unless you're working in the US military or intelligence services, where being biased in favour of proscribed organisations can be seen as a potential for leaking state secrets to terror organisations or sanctioned states like Iran. But that's not unique to Iran, it would be true of Russia, Cuba, North Korea- I totally understand the irony from Orange in Chief and his ties to Russia, but that's something else.
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• pepperoni_pizza 9d ago
  This is very much true. I have met some if the coolest people in CCCs but also some of the worst people. I miss the atmosphere but I don't miss the selfimportant assholes everywhere. I just wish I could get Floral Mate here, the Tschunk is not the same without it. ETA: it was actually the Russian invasion of Ukraine that broke my perception of German people and thus CCC for me. But that's a different story.
  • ffsm8 9d ago
    > it was actually the Russian invasion of Ukraine that broke my perception of German people and thus CCC for me. Wdym? I'm German and kinda wanna know. My personal view on the matter is that Germany should not have - in any way - participated. There was no treatment with Ukraine. The Russian invasion was unconscionable, but ultimately doesn't matter if you hadn't entered into a defense contract before the event. From my perspective this whole thing is like someone not paying their insurance premium and then having a random assortment of insurers offer options to them. Simply because theyre geographically close. And it's not like the massive amount of money being thrown at them is actually being appreciated either. Yes I know they're supposedly only borrowing the money, but anyone with half a brain knows that Ukraine will default as soon as the war ends, effectively wiping the slate. I hold the same position for any other initiatives that the German politicians throw money around for outside of its own borders
    • pepperoni_pizza 9d ago
      Yes. Thank you for perfect example. I thought the Germans are people like us, but your values are entirely alien to me.
      • ffsm8 9d ago
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• cassepipe 9d ago
  > One older man out of nowhere loudly proclaimed I was Anti-semetic There's a bit of fringe-political subculture worth knowing here. Most self-proclaimed antifascist groups in Europe are made up of leftists who side with the Palestinians, and in Germany that scene has a long history of friction with old-school "anti-imperialists", often fairly authoritarian communists. The "antideutsche" current grew out of a rejection of exactly that, dating back to reunification in 1990, when part of the radical left decided the real danger was Germany itself. It started as a mostly intellectual critique, but in practice it came to mean waving the Israeli flag at every opportunity and giving grief to anyone in a keffiyeh.
  • mitxela 8d ago
    Ironically that is exactly the part of Germany that is the real danger.
• paradox460 8d ago
  Never been to a ccc, but sadly experiences similar to yours drove me off of attending "nerd" events
  • Mashimo 8d ago
    Yes, my partner helps out at cos play events. Christ on a bike, there is so much drama.
    • paradox460 7d ago
      I used to go play board games and such at a local shop. Stopped years ago. Just too much bs about anything. Nowdays I occasionally host small DnD games, and its a blast. But its invite only, and we're not afraid to not invite people in the future. But our group works and plays well with each other, and it's been blissfully drama free
• yndoendo 8d ago
  This is the same for all social environments. People can be bound to their ideology without ability to converse or reasoning with simplistic ideas. Often such people require a build up of interaction before the ability to persuaded them. To the camera, some people want a historical time capsule and others want to live in the moment unarchived. People are more capable of being themselves without a picture which can redefine the moment in a thousand words which as no binding to reality. Or they want to be a ghost to limit possible future repercussions.
  • Mashimo 8d ago
    > This is the same for all social environments. No, it definitely is not. But there are some that are similar. For example my partner is involved in the anime / magic the gathering / cosplay scene and I can see the parallels. Just exhausting. But for example in the Techno / Festival scene, not just as a guest, but as a worker that much much rare to meet a person that exhausts me.
    • yndoendo 7d ago
      Reason it is the same for all social environments is law of large numbers. How lucky are you that the outcome is good versus a bad experience in the limited time being there? Example, you go to the same place often and have a good experience. One day at the same place you have someone talking to you about a crazy conspiracy theory and they want you to believe it. Another being your supervisor or boss is just fine and focus on the task. Then a few years in they start trying to push you to their religion or political beliefs. All social environments are dynamic and have the potential to be good or bad. It can be reduced based in the context of the environment. Example, going to church reduces the chance of someone trying to convert you to another religion but it does not reduce the push for political and other ideology engagement in a forceful nature.
• cedws 8d ago
  Consequences of gathering a bunch of neurodivergent people. I used to go to FOSDEM but I can’t with being around so many people with poor social skills and poor showering skills again.