4 ms·

In Seattle they're mostly homeless shelters.

by carabiner 10d ago

popalchemist 10d ago
In LA, it's about 50/50. But in case you aren't aware, this is one of the purposes of libraries.
- cube00 10d ago
  Depends on the library. If you appear to be sleeping, staff will check on your welfare, and wake you up. https://www.spl.org/about-us/policies/community-use-agreement https://www.spl.org/about-us/policies/community-use-agreemen...
  - popalchemist 10d ago
    I don't mean it's a shelter for them in the literal sense. As in a place to sleep. It IS however meant to be a safe harbor - a place they are welcome to simply EXIST. Ask google "is the ethos of libraries to help the homeless" Here's what it says: The core ethos of libraries is to provide universal, equitable access to information, resources, and safe spaces for all members of a community, including people experiencing homelessness. While public libraries are not specifically designed to be homeless shelters or social service agencies, their foundational commitment to inclusivity means they naturally serve as a vital lifeline for marginalized populations. This has always been the case.
    - carefree-bob 10d ago
      I'm not sure what you mean by "ethos of libraries", but this was not the original intent of libraries, or the "ethos" that most voters would use when deciding whether to fund a library or not. The problem with reimagining the role of publicly funded institutions and ascribing a new "ethos" to them that is not supported by the public is that funding gets cut and libraries get shut down. If you want to know the original ethos of libraries, it was to disseminate knowledge at low cost to members of the community. Not to be socially inclusive. Not to make people feel welcome. Not to provide "safe spaces". But to provide access to knowledge. By subverting this ethos, we have also subverted a lot of the funding model and political support, which is why libraries are having a difficult time right now.
      - popalchemist 10d ago
        Perhaps you do not know anyone who works in a library. Go ask one. This has been the ethos for over 100 years in America.
        carefree-bob 10d ago
        In fact, I do. Maybe you are in a bubble, but go ahead and try to get people to vote for public funding of "safe spaces" and then have them vote for public funding of "convenient access to media for taxpayers", and see which proposition gets the most votes. You will be surprised, and then you will accuse America of being a fascist country, when the actual ethos of people are revealed.
        popalchemist 10d ago
        https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/services-poor-homeless https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/serv... it was formalized in the 60's but there was a precedent going back AT LEAST to the wild west.
        carefree-bob 10d ago
        [flagged]
        popalchemist 10d ago
        The ALA is the canonical answer as to what is official policy of American libraries. Whether you agree with its politics or not, those policies and the ethos underlying them are not something new. You're clearly a right wing nut (since "libraries are more than buildings with books" is something you find "poltiical" and facts are something to be rejected), just come out and say it.
        badpun 10d ago
        Ancient Rome had libraries already, I'm pretty sure their "ethos" wasn't about inclusivity and safe spaces. Somewhere along the line from then to now, it got subverted.
- gyomu 10d ago
  De facto it is in the US, but it is the only country in the world where that is the case.
  - LtWorf 10d ago
    There's often smelly people napping in Sweden. I presume their housing situation isn't the best. Or they are not mentally capable of cleaning themselves.
  - SyneRyder 10d ago
    There's definitely some of it happening in Australia. I wouldn't regard libraries as the safest of places. I had a period where I tried working from there on my laptop, before realizing I was incredibly naive and there were a lot of homeless and mentally ill people there. Took me a while to realize why people would tell me to avoid the men's toilets in the library as well.
    - imawakegnxoxo 10d ago
      Homeless problem in Australia right now is insane People sleeping in every car park at parks and beaches etc I'm a night person with bad insomnia so I often go for drives or walks at night and a lot of my favourite places to go are now heavily populated by people sleeping in their cars
      - SyneRyder 9d ago
        Night person here too - midnight walks during an Australian summer are excellent. The homeless situation isn't quite that bad where I am in Perth's suburbs, but there was a guy living out of his 4WD in a local shopping center carpark for a while. He had a prominent sign about his situation asking for money, but to his credit he was offering to do things in return (he helped a family member with a deflated tire once). Many of the homeless in Perth city seem to be mental health cases though, where a skilled job providing an income that could support themselves is unlikely.
    - trollbridge 9d ago
- TulliusCicero 10d ago
  It really shouldn't be. We should have dedicated shelters for that. Relying on libraries to be de facto homeless shelters is bad for everyone compared to the alternative of dedicated facilities. It's worse for homeless people, worse for the library and staff, and worse for patrons.
  - crooked-v 10d ago
    Unfortunately, the US is filled with people who are happy to make their own lives worse if it hurts people they don't like even more.
  - popalchemist 10d ago
    [dead]
  - bobthepanda 10d ago
    The problem is that we’ve wound up in an unhappy place due to the weird perverse incentives of ideology. Taking homeless people off the street, whether to a hospital or jail, costs a lot of money; so we lack something to do in a climate where a good chunk of the populace is rabidly against paying more money for anything.
    - TulliusCicero 10d ago
      I think you're right that people are against these things, but wrong about the reasons. Taking homeless people to jail because they're homeless just seems stupid and pointless, not to mention harmful to the person going to jail. Shelters have the issue where people don't want them near where they live (for often justifiable reasons) but obviously they have to go somewhere.
      - OroPla 9d ago
        Don't we already have rehabilitation centers? I definitely think that you have to take homeless people being a nuisance off the streets against their will. There's already plenty of invisible homeless people living out of a car that shower in the gym. They aren't a public nuisance and there should be structures where someone like that can get help from. But the actual homeless problem are the drug addicts and beggars that are a public nuisance. There's no solution to that problem other than moving them against their will, is there?
- mulakosag 10d ago
  Then don't call it a library, call it a homeless support center with books. i see the same thing here in austin, the central library is full of homeless people, shouting in silent room, shooting guns in restrooms. I love books and libraries more than anything but it saddens when place for knowledge are converted into daytime homeless shelters.
  - tokai 10d ago
    You can always spot the Americans because any talk about libraries will turn into whining about homeless people existing. You should fix your social system.
    - trollbridge 9d ago
      It should be possible to have public libraries without fixing all other social ills first.
canadiantim 10d ago
That's still community
- winrid 10d ago
  A smelly one
  - _eht 10d ago
    We are so glad you have access to showers and hygiene products with no regard. Even so, you are the kind of off-putting that soap can not fix.
  - imp0cat 10d ago
    So it's something like a gym? ;)
  - ashkankiani 9d ago
    If you saw a homeless person in a library, would you be able to tell them they smell to their face? Do you have that kind of "bravery"? Or is it just here, amongst your "peers."
    - winrid 8d ago
      No because they're likely mentally unstable :D
Markoff 10d ago
One Prague branch I frequent is hang out spot for kids to be hooked on free wifi and stare at smartphone, there is no better place to stare at your smartphone than in library full of books! I even complained* why they won't set some time limits per connection to make it annoying enough to be useless for kids (but still usable for someone for few minutes to look up some book reviews/database), but seems everyone including management is addicted to smartphones. It's nice that library is welcoming young people, though not sure if encouraging their smartphone addiction is the right way to attract someone. *main reason for complaint wasn't kids staring at phones and playing games, but shouting swear words during gaming on phone and playing it loudly without earbuds, when I am visiting with small kids who are interested in actual books
- trollbridge 9d ago
  This must be global since I had a similar experience on the east coast of the USA. It seems reasonable to expect a public library not to functionally be an Internet gamer café.

In Seattle they're mostly homeless shelters.

popalchemist 10d ago

In LA, it's about 50/50. But in case you aren't aware, this is one of the purposes of libraries.

cube00 10d ago
Depends on the library. If you appear to be sleeping, staff will check on your welfare, and wake you up. https://www.spl.org/about-us/policies/community-use-agreement https://www.spl.org/about-us/policies/community-use-agreemen...
- popalchemist 10d ago
  I don't mean it's a shelter for them in the literal sense. As in a place to sleep. It IS however meant to be a safe harbor - a place they are welcome to simply EXIST. Ask google "is the ethos of libraries to help the homeless" Here's what it says: The core ethos of libraries is to provide universal, equitable access to information, resources, and safe spaces for all members of a community, including people experiencing homelessness. While public libraries are not specifically designed to be homeless shelters or social service agencies, their foundational commitment to inclusivity means they naturally serve as a vital lifeline for marginalized populations. This has always been the case.
  - carefree-bob 10d ago
    I'm not sure what you mean by "ethos of libraries", but this was not the original intent of libraries, or the "ethos" that most voters would use when deciding whether to fund a library or not. The problem with reimagining the role of publicly funded institutions and ascribing a new "ethos" to them that is not supported by the public is that funding gets cut and libraries get shut down. If you want to know the original ethos of libraries, it was to disseminate knowledge at low cost to members of the community. Not to be socially inclusive. Not to make people feel welcome. Not to provide "safe spaces". But to provide access to knowledge. By subverting this ethos, we have also subverted a lot of the funding model and political support, which is why libraries are having a difficult time right now.
    - popalchemist 10d ago
      Perhaps you do not know anyone who works in a library. Go ask one. This has been the ethos for over 100 years in America.
      - carefree-bob 10d ago
        In fact, I do. Maybe you are in a bubble, but go ahead and try to get people to vote for public funding of "safe spaces" and then have them vote for public funding of "convenient access to media for taxpayers", and see which proposition gets the most votes. You will be surprised, and then you will accuse America of being a fascist country, when the actual ethos of people are revealed.
        popalchemist 10d ago
        https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/services-poor-homeless https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/serv... it was formalized in the 60's but there was a precedent going back AT LEAST to the wild west.
        carefree-bob 10d ago
        [flagged]
        popalchemist 10d ago
        The ALA is the canonical answer as to what is official policy of American libraries. Whether you agree with its politics or not, those policies and the ethos underlying them are not something new. You're clearly a right wing nut (since "libraries are more than buildings with books" is something you find "poltiical" and facts are something to be rejected), just come out and say it.
      - badpun 10d ago
        Ancient Rome had libraries already, I'm pretty sure their "ethos" wasn't about inclusivity and safe spaces. Somewhere along the line from then to now, it got subverted.
gyomu 10d ago
De facto it is in the US, but it is the only country in the world where that is the case.
- LtWorf 10d ago
  There's often smelly people napping in Sweden. I presume their housing situation isn't the best. Or they are not mentally capable of cleaning themselves.
- SyneRyder 10d ago
  There's definitely some of it happening in Australia. I wouldn't regard libraries as the safest of places. I had a period where I tried working from there on my laptop, before realizing I was incredibly naive and there were a lot of homeless and mentally ill people there. Took me a while to realize why people would tell me to avoid the men's toilets in the library as well.
  - imawakegnxoxo 10d ago
    Homeless problem in Australia right now is insane People sleeping in every car park at parks and beaches etc I'm a night person with bad insomnia so I often go for drives or walks at night and a lot of my favourite places to go are now heavily populated by people sleeping in their cars
    - SyneRyder 9d ago
      Night person here too - midnight walks during an Australian summer are excellent. The homeless situation isn't quite that bad where I am in Perth's suburbs, but there was a guy living out of his 4WD in a local shopping center carpark for a while. He had a prominent sign about his situation asking for money, but to his credit he was offering to do things in return (he helped a family member with a deflated tire once). Many of the homeless in Perth city seem to be mental health cases though, where a skilled job providing an income that could support themselves is unlikely.
  - trollbridge 9d ago
TulliusCicero 10d ago
It really shouldn't be. We should have dedicated shelters for that. Relying on libraries to be de facto homeless shelters is bad for everyone compared to the alternative of dedicated facilities. It's worse for homeless people, worse for the library and staff, and worse for patrons.
- crooked-v 10d ago
  Unfortunately, the US is filled with people who are happy to make their own lives worse if it hurts people they don't like even more.
- popalchemist 10d ago
  [dead]
- bobthepanda 10d ago
  The problem is that we’ve wound up in an unhappy place due to the weird perverse incentives of ideology. Taking homeless people off the street, whether to a hospital or jail, costs a lot of money; so we lack something to do in a climate where a good chunk of the populace is rabidly against paying more money for anything.
  - TulliusCicero 10d ago
    I think you're right that people are against these things, but wrong about the reasons. Taking homeless people to jail because they're homeless just seems stupid and pointless, not to mention harmful to the person going to jail. Shelters have the issue where people don't want them near where they live (for often justifiable reasons) but obviously they have to go somewhere.
    - OroPla 9d ago
      Don't we already have rehabilitation centers? I definitely think that you have to take homeless people being a nuisance off the streets against their will. There's already plenty of invisible homeless people living out of a car that shower in the gym. They aren't a public nuisance and there should be structures where someone like that can get help from. But the actual homeless problem are the drug addicts and beggars that are a public nuisance. There's no solution to that problem other than moving them against their will, is there?
mulakosag 10d ago
Then don't call it a library, call it a homeless support center with books. i see the same thing here in austin, the central library is full of homeless people, shouting in silent room, shooting guns in restrooms. I love books and libraries more than anything but it saddens when place for knowledge are converted into daytime homeless shelters.
- tokai 10d ago
  You can always spot the Americans because any talk about libraries will turn into whining about homeless people existing. You should fix your social system.
  - trollbridge 9d ago
    It should be possible to have public libraries without fixing all other social ills first.

canadiantim 10d ago

That's still community

winrid 10d ago
A smelly one
- _eht 10d ago
  We are so glad you have access to showers and hygiene products with no regard. Even so, you are the kind of off-putting that soap can not fix.
- imp0cat 10d ago
  So it's something like a gym? ;)
- ashkankiani 9d ago
  If you saw a homeless person in a library, would you be able to tell them they smell to their face? Do you have that kind of "bravery"? Or is it just here, amongst your "peers."
  - winrid 8d ago
    No because they're likely mentally unstable :D

Markoff 10d ago

One Prague branch I frequent is hang out spot for kids to be hooked on free wifi and stare at smartphone, there is no better place to stare at your smartphone than in library full of books! I even complained* why they won't set some time limits per connection to make it annoying enough to be useless for kids (but still usable for someone for few minutes to look up some book reviews/database), but seems everyone including management is addicted to smartphones. It's nice that library is welcoming young people, though not sure if encouraging their smartphone addiction is the right way to attract someone. *main reason for complaint wasn't kids staring at phones and playing games, but shouting swear words during gaming on phone and playing it loudly without earbuds, when I am visiting with small kids who are interested in actual books

trollbridge 9d ago
This must be global since I had a similar experience on the east coast of the USA. It seems reasonable to expect a public library not to functionally be an Internet gamer café.