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But that inability to reset human brains might be a critical ingredient to consciousness. We just don't know.

by causal 10d ago

throw310822 10d ago
If you go this route, the amount of things you just don't know is innumerable. Maybe to be conscious it's necessary to be wet and squishy. To like chocolate. To have a name starting with "c". "We just don't know."
- causal 10d ago
  Whataboutism. We have shared experiences which can relate consciousness to memory. "To like chocolate" is considerably less relevant.
- lelanthran 10d ago
  > If you go this route, the amount of things you just don't know is innumerable. Maybe so, but there are things we do know. For example, LLMs are only in a state that looks like consciousness when they are fed input. IOW, their "consciousness" can be switched off and on like a light switch without them being aware of it. Biological beings have no such off/on switch. At all. To me the argument is moot; their "consciousness" is a collection of files on a computer, which can be moved, duplicated, erased, edited, paused, sped up, slowed down, examined in detail. The question is not "Can LLMs be conscious", it's "Are we prepared to call files on a USB stick 'conscious'", because if we are prepared to do that, then the word loses all meaning. I'll open vim and create a consciousness now, or maybe if I engrave a slab of rock with a bunch of weights, that rock suddenly gains consciousness? How about if I chant all the weights into the wind - is the wind now conscious. Whether they are conscious or not is a dumb question, because if they are, then everything else is as well.
thewebguyd 10d ago
> We just don't know. That's the absurdity of this. We are trying to measure LLMs against something we don't even have an accurate definition of ourselves. If we don't fully know what consciousness is, how can we confidently determine whether or not an AI model has consciousness?
dwaltrip 10d ago
And what of amnesia and dementia?
- joshheitzman 9d ago
  Neither one of those is a reset. Those are both impairments of function.

But that inability to reset human brains might be a critical ingredient to consciousness. We just don't know.

by causal 10d ago

But that inability to reset human brains might be a critical ingredient to consciousness. We just don't know.

If you go this route, the amount of things you just don't know is innumerable. Maybe to be conscious it's necessary to be wet and squishy. To like chocolate. To have a name starting with "c". "We just don't know."

causal 10d ago
Whataboutism. We have shared experiences which can relate consciousness to memory. "To like chocolate" is considerably less relevant.
lelanthran 10d ago
> If you go this route, the amount of things you just don't know is innumerable. Maybe so, but there are things we do know. For example, LLMs are only in a state that looks like consciousness when they are fed input. IOW, their "consciousness" can be switched off and on like a light switch without them being aware of it. Biological beings have no such off/on switch. At all. To me the argument is moot; their "consciousness" is a collection of files on a computer, which can be moved, duplicated, erased, edited, paused, sped up, slowed down, examined in detail. The question is not "Can LLMs be conscious", it's "Are we prepared to call files on a USB stick 'conscious'", because if we are prepared to do that, then the word loses all meaning. I'll open vim and create a consciousness now, or maybe if I engrave a slab of rock with a bunch of weights, that rock suddenly gains consciousness? How about if I chant all the weights into the wind - is the wind now conscious. Whether they are conscious or not is a dumb question, because if they are, then everything else is as well.

thewebguyd 10d ago

> We just don't know. That's the absurdity of this. We are trying to measure LLMs against something we don't even have an accurate definition of ourselves. If we don't fully know what consciousness is, how can we confidently determine whether or not an AI model has consciousness?

dwaltrip 10d ago

And what of amnesia and dementia?

joshheitzman 9d ago
Neither one of those is a reset. Those are both impairments of function.