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I'll be honest, I think Dr Who is due for a 1989-style shelving for a while. I've loved watching the show since I was young, but I think the quality has fallen

I'll be honest, I think Dr Who is due for a 1989-style shelving for a while. I've loved watching the show since I was young, but I think the quality has fallen off significantly recently. Capaldi was the last "great doctor" in my opinion. Whittaker is a good actress, I thought she performed well in Broadchurch (ironically also written by Chibnall), but her writing was just awful, and it feels like they've just spent the last couple of seasons nostalgia-baiting the fans, like with the Midnight episode

jordanb 18d ago
It fell apart in the Capaldi era. The "kill the moon" was the "jump the shark" of neu-Who
- voidUpdate 18d ago
  Capaldi had strong episodes throughout his run, but yes, I personally did dislike some of the storylines. The Zygon stuff felt very weak to me, and I never understood the "The Hybrid" storyline. But heaven sent/hell bent were bangers, and I definitely enjoyed his finale Cybermen episodes. But yes, the moon suddenly reappearing in between shots, perfectly fine and identical to before, was very silly
  - mr_roboto 18d ago
    They went ultra woke and it tanked exactly as you'd expect.
    - voidUpdate 17d ago
      Doctor Who has been "woke" for a long time. I believe the 4th doctor discuss what pronouns to use for an alien. There have been several episodes essentially about slavery in the 10th and 11th doctors runs. Also you should read about The Happiness Patrol, a 7th doctor episode
      - philipallstar 17d ago
        > I believe the 4th doctor discuss what pronouns to use for an alien. You believe it because you've memorised it for such a time as this, but it is not the same as woke "black is white if it feels it is" style feelings. > There have been several episodes essentially about slavery in the 10th and 11th doctors runs Being anti-slavery isn't woke. Thinking that changing the name of a git branch from "master" to "main" fights slavery is woke.
        voidUpdate 17d ago
        Could you please define what you think "woke" means then? Because I'm working off the definition of "being aware of and attentive to social and political injustices, especially regarding race, gender, and inequality"
        philipallstar 17d ago
        I think you have to be completely in another universe to think that's all anyone means by that. Are you really so delusional about your own superiority that you think "anti-woke" just means anti those things? It's 2026 and there has been almost 10 years of woke excess. I don't think me explaining is going to do anything for you or to knock you off your high horse.
        voidUpdate 17d ago
        That's why I'm asking you what your definition of woke is, so that I can understand what it is about new doctor who that you don't like
        deleted 17d ago
        [deleted]
        rcxdude 17d ago
        That's pretty much the definition that the term started with (arguably it was a bit more general in some sense: just along the lines of 'politically aware and engaged'). It seems to have morphed, but I find that when it's used pejoratively there's not one fixed definition beyond 'I don't like it'.
    - jordanb 17d ago
      More like "go woke because you've run out of ideas." The only "woke" thing about Whittaker was that the doctor was female, something they would have done in earlier episodes (in fact, did do) and wouldn't have made a big deal about it. But they had no reason for people to watch Who by the time you got to Whittaker, and the show should have been cancelled already but it was making too much money, so they treated her like a Cousin Oliver and made the fact that she was the First Female Doctor (not even true) into a huge thing because they had nothing else.
      - voidUpdate 17d ago
        I think the episode written by Malorie Blackman about some random time criminal appearing during MLK and Rosa Parks' protests would fall under "woke" too, but that was just a shit episode because of bad writing. A competent episode writer could probably have done something better with that time period/setting
        jvyvinomigg 16d ago
        Jesus now this is one terrible take. Rosa is a bad story? Please. Rosa is phenomenal.
      - philipallstar 17d ago
        Probably the fact that in one episode[0] the Doctor's incarnations were actually mostly women except for the most recent few - who obscured this important fact - smelled a lot like "yet another man taking credit for a woman's work". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Timeless_Children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Timeless_Children
        jimbokun 17d ago
        I wasn’t aware of those episodes but from that description sounds like people writing the show who despise the character and the audience.
        17d ago
    - nilamo 17d ago
      idk, Who, Trek, Star Wars have been woke since the 60s. At this point, it seems more likely that you've changed woke to mean "anything I don't like". Or you watch too much Fox
    - afavour 17d ago
      Staggers me when I see viewpoints like this about Who, Trek and the like. Take a second to consider, maybe it isn't the show's outlook that changed, it's you? Who has always been progressive. Trek, too. If you were your current age in the 60s I bet you'd be railing against Kirk kissing Uhura.
      - AvocadoPanic 17d ago
        Yhe kiss wass involuntarily forced by psychokinesis.
    - TheOtherHobbes 17d ago
      No doubt MAGA Who would have been much more popular?
  - jordanb 18d ago
    Maybe Capaldi ended on a high note. I was done with the show after the moon episode and quit watching. I couldn't keep suspending disbelief after that. It wasn't just one bad episode the whole thing felt tired. Capaldi was a great actor and it was nice that he got some good scripts (I really liked the one where he was in Doctor Prison, great concept), but his run felt to me like a show running out of ideas. I didn't watch the Whittaker doctor. Heard it was awful and wasn't surprised. I eventually saw the pilot and it was indeed, awful.
    - voidUpdate 17d ago
      Back when it was airing, I sort of lost interest around Capaldi. I think his episodes were a bit too "mature" for me, when I preferred funny scifi show. But I've come to appreciate a lot of his episodes more. But he did have some really dogshit ones, like the moon episode, The Caretaker (Where a school gets attacked by a dalek knockoff), and Sleep No More, which was so bad that me and my girlfriend spent the whole episode talking about other stuff when having a marathon rewatch. Both of us are big fans of doctor who in general
- wisty 17d ago
  Implying it hadn't already fell apart in the Matt Smith era, where there was a season finale that made less sense than the end of Neo Genesis Evangelion (I think I'm talking about The Pandorica Opens, but it's honestly all a blur, and was at the time I watched it too). Moffat hyped up future episodes but could rarely deliver, RTD just hit you with a massive sucker punch on the 2nd or 3rd last episode and WOW. Also implying that the wheels weren't kinda getting loose when 10ant said his final farewell at that (otherwise fairly underrated IMO) episode where the Master was hungry.
afavour 17d ago
I think it just needs fresh blood. Much like the show in the latter years of its first run it collapsed under the weight of its own canon, and writers/showrunners that enthusiastically embraced that canon and alienated the casual audience. IMO they should never have brought back the Time Lords. That was the genius stroke of the 2005 reboot. Just make the Doctor an intergalactic oddball, let the adventures run from there. What's weird is that Russell Davies was the one who understood this... then when he came back to the show he shoveled nostalgia on top of nostalgia and sank the thing. I never even watched the Chibnall era so I'm not fully informed but from reading about the Timeless Child arc it just sounds like a show disappearing up its own arse. It's supposed to be a family show, younger kids don't care about that kind of stuff. Just make it fun.
- Wowfunhappy 17d ago
  The Chibnall episodes sucked but then Russel T David came back as showrunner. If you haven't seen the first three episodes he did, with David Tennant returning as the doctor, you're missing out. I liked the regular season that followed too, it had good and bad episodes just like the last time RTD was showrunner.
  - jvyvinomigg 16d ago
    Chibnall episodes most certainly did not suck, neither did his writing. It was simply s different take on Doctor Who. A good one. What killed it for good was what came (back) after. Bad decision. Bad precedent set. Bringing the RTD and Tennant gang back was the single most important and devastating mistake ever made on this show.
    - Wowfunhappy 16d ago
      Hi Chris Chibnall, great to see you on Hacker News. :) In all seriousness we clearly have very different taste! I just found the Chibnall episodes boring. I wanted to like them! I think GGP shares my taste though, based on their comment.
TheOtherHobbes 17d ago
All of the big franchises are collapsing under the weight of nostalgia and self-reference. Reboots like Picard are shockingly, almost insensitively, retrospective.
nephihaha 17d ago
It deserves a "1989-style shelving" much more than it did in 1989 itself. The viewing figures are tumbling off a cliff at a time when the BBC in general needs them more than ever.

jordanb 18d ago

It fell apart in the Capaldi era. The "kill the moon" was the "jump the shark" of neu-Who

voidUpdate 18d ago
Capaldi had strong episodes throughout his run, but yes, I personally did dislike some of the storylines. The Zygon stuff felt very weak to me, and I never understood the "The Hybrid" storyline. But heaven sent/hell bent were bangers, and I definitely enjoyed his finale Cybermen episodes. But yes, the moon suddenly reappearing in between shots, perfectly fine and identical to before, was very silly
- mr_roboto 18d ago
  They went ultra woke and it tanked exactly as you'd expect.
  - voidUpdate 17d ago
    Doctor Who has been "woke" for a long time. I believe the 4th doctor discuss what pronouns to use for an alien. There have been several episodes essentially about slavery in the 10th and 11th doctors runs. Also you should read about The Happiness Patrol, a 7th doctor episode
    - philipallstar 17d ago
      > I believe the 4th doctor discuss what pronouns to use for an alien. You believe it because you've memorised it for such a time as this, but it is not the same as woke "black is white if it feels it is" style feelings. > There have been several episodes essentially about slavery in the 10th and 11th doctors runs Being anti-slavery isn't woke. Thinking that changing the name of a git branch from "master" to "main" fights slavery is woke.
      - voidUpdate 17d ago
        Could you please define what you think "woke" means then? Because I'm working off the definition of "being aware of and attentive to social and political injustices, especially regarding race, gender, and inequality"
        philipallstar 17d ago
        I think you have to be completely in another universe to think that's all anyone means by that. Are you really so delusional about your own superiority that you think "anti-woke" just means anti those things? It's 2026 and there has been almost 10 years of woke excess. I don't think me explaining is going to do anything for you or to knock you off your high horse.
        voidUpdate 17d ago
        That's why I'm asking you what your definition of woke is, so that I can understand what it is about new doctor who that you don't like
        deleted 17d ago
        [deleted]
        rcxdude 17d ago
        That's pretty much the definition that the term started with (arguably it was a bit more general in some sense: just along the lines of 'politically aware and engaged'). It seems to have morphed, but I find that when it's used pejoratively there's not one fixed definition beyond 'I don't like it'.
  - jordanb 17d ago
    More like "go woke because you've run out of ideas." The only "woke" thing about Whittaker was that the doctor was female, something they would have done in earlier episodes (in fact, did do) and wouldn't have made a big deal about it. But they had no reason for people to watch Who by the time you got to Whittaker, and the show should have been cancelled already but it was making too much money, so they treated her like a Cousin Oliver and made the fact that she was the First Female Doctor (not even true) into a huge thing because they had nothing else.
    - voidUpdate 17d ago
      I think the episode written by Malorie Blackman about some random time criminal appearing during MLK and Rosa Parks' protests would fall under "woke" too, but that was just a shit episode because of bad writing. A competent episode writer could probably have done something better with that time period/setting
      - jvyvinomigg 16d ago
        Jesus now this is one terrible take. Rosa is a bad story? Please. Rosa is phenomenal.
    - philipallstar 17d ago
      Probably the fact that in one episode[0] the Doctor's incarnations were actually mostly women except for the most recent few - who obscured this important fact - smelled a lot like "yet another man taking credit for a woman's work". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Timeless_Children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Timeless_Children
      - jimbokun 17d ago
        I wasn’t aware of those episodes but from that description sounds like people writing the show who despise the character and the audience.
        17d ago
  - nilamo 17d ago
    idk, Who, Trek, Star Wars have been woke since the 60s. At this point, it seems more likely that you've changed woke to mean "anything I don't like". Or you watch too much Fox
  - afavour 17d ago
    Staggers me when I see viewpoints like this about Who, Trek and the like. Take a second to consider, maybe it isn't the show's outlook that changed, it's you? Who has always been progressive. Trek, too. If you were your current age in the 60s I bet you'd be railing against Kirk kissing Uhura.
    - AvocadoPanic 17d ago
      Yhe kiss wass involuntarily forced by psychokinesis.
  - TheOtherHobbes 17d ago
    No doubt MAGA Who would have been much more popular?
- jordanb 18d ago
  Maybe Capaldi ended on a high note. I was done with the show after the moon episode and quit watching. I couldn't keep suspending disbelief after that. It wasn't just one bad episode the whole thing felt tired. Capaldi was a great actor and it was nice that he got some good scripts (I really liked the one where he was in Doctor Prison, great concept), but his run felt to me like a show running out of ideas. I didn't watch the Whittaker doctor. Heard it was awful and wasn't surprised. I eventually saw the pilot and it was indeed, awful.
  - voidUpdate 17d ago
    Back when it was airing, I sort of lost interest around Capaldi. I think his episodes were a bit too "mature" for me, when I preferred funny scifi show. But I've come to appreciate a lot of his episodes more. But he did have some really dogshit ones, like the moon episode, The Caretaker (Where a school gets attacked by a dalek knockoff), and Sleep No More, which was so bad that me and my girlfriend spent the whole episode talking about other stuff when having a marathon rewatch. Both of us are big fans of doctor who in general
wisty 17d ago
Implying it hadn't already fell apart in the Matt Smith era, where there was a season finale that made less sense than the end of Neo Genesis Evangelion (I think I'm talking about The Pandorica Opens, but it's honestly all a blur, and was at the time I watched it too). Moffat hyped up future episodes but could rarely deliver, RTD just hit you with a massive sucker punch on the 2nd or 3rd last episode and WOW. Also implying that the wheels weren't kinda getting loose when 10ant said his final farewell at that (otherwise fairly underrated IMO) episode where the Master was hungry.

afavour 17d ago

I think it just needs fresh blood. Much like the show in the latter years of its first run it collapsed under the weight of its own canon, and writers/showrunners that enthusiastically embraced that canon and alienated the casual audience. IMO they should never have brought back the Time Lords. That was the genius stroke of the 2005 reboot. Just make the Doctor an intergalactic oddball, let the adventures run from there. What's weird is that Russell Davies was the one who understood this... then when he came back to the show he shoveled nostalgia on top of nostalgia and sank the thing. I never even watched the Chibnall era so I'm not fully informed but from reading about the Timeless Child arc it just sounds like a show disappearing up its own arse. It's supposed to be a family show, younger kids don't care about that kind of stuff. Just make it fun.

Wowfunhappy 17d ago
The Chibnall episodes sucked but then Russel T David came back as showrunner. If you haven't seen the first three episodes he did, with David Tennant returning as the doctor, you're missing out. I liked the regular season that followed too, it had good and bad episodes just like the last time RTD was showrunner.
- jvyvinomigg 16d ago
  Chibnall episodes most certainly did not suck, neither did his writing. It was simply s different take on Doctor Who. A good one. What killed it for good was what came (back) after. Bad decision. Bad precedent set. Bringing the RTD and Tennant gang back was the single most important and devastating mistake ever made on this show.
  - Wowfunhappy 16d ago
    Hi Chris Chibnall, great to see you on Hacker News. :) In all seriousness we clearly have very different taste! I just found the Chibnall episodes boring. I wanted to like them! I think GGP shares my taste though, based on their comment.

TheOtherHobbes 17d ago

All of the big franchises are collapsing under the weight of nostalgia and self-reference. Reboots like Picard are shockingly, almost insensitively, retrospective.

nephihaha 17d ago

It deserves a "1989-style shelving" much more than it did in 1989 itself. The viewing figures are tumbling off a cliff at a time when the BBC in general needs them more than ever.