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This would be Canada getting down leveled to the minor leagues. Yes there are a few issues with the US, but Canada is vastly better off playing on the world sta

• data-ottawa 19d ago
  What specifically do you mean “under the wings of the US?”
• JimTheMan 19d ago
  This kind of move by Canada indicates that perhaps it believes the US to be unreliable and in decline? A necessary move, because the US isnt acting like an ally anymore. Hence the increased cooperation and agreements with the EU and China.
• akie 19d ago
  Well, it's up for Canada to decide, right? RIGHT?
• shoobiedoo 19d ago
  And won't the dems just undo all this tariff nonsense anyway? Or is Canada acting like a bitter ex after a breakup who vows to take their seething to the grave no matter what
  • patcon 19d ago
    I think the metaphor you're looking for is from the "USA as an abusive ex" angle, not a "bitter ex" metaphor that shifts blame to others...
  • llm_nerd 19d ago
    Bitter ex? This is amazing. The US is a completely broken country, and simply switching governments will not change that. Without a complete and utter change in how that entire country operates -- including dissolution -- no country should ever normalize relations with it again. The US is by far the world's most dangerous rogue nation. It is a terroristic nation. It is a bully. It not only elected a rapist self-dealing criminal imbecile to president, it elected him again, seeking a round two after the utter debacle the first term was, and the disastrous results are exactly what everyone could predict, but you know...this is who America is now. And a big reason Canada is moving on is that it's pretty clear that the US is a country in spectacular decline, and it is China's century now. Which is maybe why the US is electing disgusting garbage like Trump -- and he's certainly not alone, and there are various garbage "football coach" type creeps filling the entire US political class -- lamenting the position they once held, now going down the Russian/Putin path where they'll accelerate the crash just to reminisce about a past that mostly never existed. EDIT: I should add that agreements with the US are worthless, and this has been amply demonstrated. As Carney noted, the US' signature is written in pencil, and even agreements signed by this very president mean nothing, and will be dishonoured at the earliest convenience. In recent trade negotiations, where Canada almost made a horrible mistake of accepting ridiculous terms to maintain the status quo as much as possible (sidenote: Canada absolutely must withdraw from USMCA, a Trump-signed and negotiated agreement that the US is in utter defiance of), they asked "so when we sign this, you'll then honour it?", and the US side couldn't even commit to that. They knew that it could be days before the rapist toddler had a twitter tantrum after one of the kleptocrats whispered in his ear and imposed new barriers, tariffs, etc. Like, what is even the point of negotiating with such a farce? A lawless cabal led by just the absolute worst human trash.
    • cmiles8 19d ago
      And how does that make you feel?
      • llm_nerd 19d ago
        I don't know. How did writing the farcical nonsense about Canada being "down-levelled" make you feel? Must have felt like you're clutching onto a delusion? Don't worry, America still has the cartoonishly pathetic "Board of Peace" (though the Arab despots might not be as eager now that the US got completely humiliated by some isolated rogue theocracy), and your close allies Argentina and El Salvador.
        • akie 19d ago
          Don't forget North Korea and Russia.
      • microtonal 19d ago
        Somewhat sad, but also full of opportunities. For instance, in the EU a lot of things are set in motion that used to be taboo, like moving away from US tech, moving away from US weapons, stronger European military integration. Stronger ties with Canada, rebuilding ties with the UK.
    • AlexandrB 19d ago
      Funny, as a Canadian I feel like Canada is a completely broken country and the US is sane by comparison. Grass is always greener, etc.
    • shoobiedoo 18d ago
      America is a lost cause with "disgusting garbage" in charge? In what ways is Xi a more fair, reasonable, citizen rights focused leader? I'm genuinely curious. I agree that Trump is a p.o.s with bad intentions, but pretending that there is some beautiful and perfect alternative on the other side of the planet is just hilarious.
      • 18d ago
  • mattstir 19d ago
    Canada isn't an abused spouse that's supposed to sit around and wait while their partner magically undoes all of its threats and (economic) violence. "Undoing" the tariffs in a few years won't magically fix the intense economic damage they've caused to Canadian citizens. The US government being forced to pay hundreds of millions of the illegal tariff money back to corporations didn't magically bring prices back down. The US has completely ruined its reputation in the eyes of most Canadians to the point where nearly every single person I know refuses to travel to the US and many refuse to purchase US goods.
  • wasabi991011 19d ago
    There is no guarantee the Democrats are going to reverse the tariffs. And even if they do, the Republicans after that can just undo the undoing, and then do worse.
  • peebee67 19d ago
    If you're still looking at this through the lens of party politics, you're missing the big picture. Most of US power comes not from its military, but its economic system. And that depends on trust and reliability. Both "sides" have been engaged in a project to scuttle that as hard and fast as they can since the end of the Cold War. Both sides demonstrate that the United States can be consistently relied upon to break every deal they make, be it relating to international relations and borders, economics and debt, trade, military protection, and supply of arms. Bush Sr and Clinton both broke the assurances made to Gorbachev that made the relatively peaceful dismantling of the Soviet Union possible by marching NATO eastward and carving up fresh borders in the Balkans. Clinton, Bush Jr, and even Biden were still talking about free trade agreements, less than a decade before we see an international tariff regime spring up, and the United States reserves subsidy carve-outs in every deal they make with other countries who they expect to open their markets. US spending has been out of control for decades no matter who controls the White House or Congress, and is only getting worse. They're relying on the inertia of its massive economy to bear the inflationary burden by printing money. The biggest export of the US economy, Treasury Bonds - that is, debt - is now seen as unreliable, and other countries are dumping them like burning garbage. Indeed, the United States has already started defaulting on such loans to a growing number of nations, only they get to call it "sanctions" when they don't repay their loans. The rest of the world looks on in horror as they realise how much of their wealth is tied up in this make-believe that the United States can renege on or bully creditors into not divesting on a whim. This explains the skyrocketing price of gold. Speaking of those creditors, a lot of them are gulf states. As in, Persian Gulf. They used to sell oil and buy Treasuries as investments. But since nearly every US base in the Persian Gulf has been effectively destroyed, every gulf state that participated in the war crimes against Iran has been punished into submission for that involvement. Resumption of hostilities like we saw in the opening month would see the infrastructure that those nations rely on to continue to function as countries destroyed within hours. Absent desalination and oil export facilities, those countries would just cease to exist as significant polities. The de facto government in Yemen (referred to perversely as the "rebels", while the legitimate government sits in Riyadh, capital of the country that has been bombing Yemen for 15 years or so) just delivered Saudi Arabia a major military defeat, while the President refused to help. Saudi Arabia, land of black gold, unable to export from either the Strait or the Red Sea, with one of the biggest oil pipelines in the world now burning, is being forced to borrow money! The United States, so called most powerful military the world has known, dares not send a large naval vessel within about 1000 km of the Strait of Hormuz, and two aircraft carriers have been forced to limp away. Meanwhile, trade through the Red Sea has also been strangled off. All of the US allies under the protection of Pax Americana have been humbled by a country that has been getting "strangled" in some form or another for the past 70 years by a superpower. And after all that the US military is out of interceptor missiles. They can't spare any for West Asia or Ukraine, right when everyone wants them. They wasted thousands of million dollar missiles on thousand dollar drones, and cannot make more at a rate that matters. If you think it's just tariffs and some hurt feelings, you haven't been paying attention.
  • bryanlarsen 19d ago
    Newsom is on the record stating he wouldn't undo all of the tariffs if he becomes president in 2028. And he's a leading Democratic candidate for the position.
• layer8 19d ago
  US governance has become so unreliable, destructive and inane, with little prospect of reverting back to what is once was, given the US’ internal political and societal landscape, that being under its “wings” now constitutes a major risk for any of its allies. Canada is correct to diversify.
  • cmiles8 19d ago
    I hear you, but the US is hardly the only country on the planet that’s had a few disruptive elections, including the EU BTW. Making generational decisions over one presidential cycle is rather short sighted.
    • layer8 19d ago
      It’s been going on since 2016, which by the end of the current term will already be roughly half a generation. And what has been destroyed in the first half of this term alone will take longer than that to rebuild. While there are troubling developments in EU countries as well, there is also the converse (e.g. Hungary), and the EU parliamentary systems are significantly more resilient than the US two-party presidential system.
    • QwenGlazer9000 19d ago
      Two actually* Mistakes happen but this same buffoon got elected twice. That's no fluke, deep down the american population likes him enough to give him two chances.
    • joha4270 19d ago
      And if Trump had just faded into obscurity after 2021 we probably wouldn't see this kind of realignment, but the fact he got reelected makes it look much less like a fluke and more like an USA that's increasingly unreliable on the international stage
      • cmiles8 19d ago
        Not giving you what you want != unreliable. It’s been extremely reliable for folks that want other things.
• patcon 19d ago
  I'm sorry, but this comment feels insufferable. I feel so much eye roll from reading it. USA is not "major leagues" by the measures that the rest of the world cares to size itself up by. If there's an apt non-baseball metaphor, it's perhaps that USA is a circus we are compelled to pay attention to for now. We'd rather just not
• bluedino 19d ago
  They'll be right back in two years
  • input_sh 19d ago
    They'll undo like 30% of the damage and call that a win.
  • Maskawanian 19d ago
    Naïve American exceptionalism. It is going to be generations before Canadians could possibly be on as friendly terms as we were just 5 years ago.
  • LeBit 19d ago
    No. The US has shown it is completely unreliable. Even if Democrats were to be back in power and devote their 4 years to restore things and apologize, that wouldn’t be enough. Americans have shown they can vote TWICE for a fascist regime that is willing and eager to generate chaos. Their political system is foobar.
• T-RN-R 19d ago
  What in the world is this train of thought? Do you not understand that the American President has directly threatened Canadian sovereignty multiple times over the last 2 years, even if under the auspices of “trolling” or “jokes”? In addition to that, the President is seeking direct control over Canadian trade relationships, control over its natural resources and all while attempting to destroy its industrial output. This ignorance makes it very clear that the American voting populace does not take positive relations with erstwhile allies seriously. Increased trade integration may not be the ideal situation for Canada, but nothing about the situation is ideal. At least we won’t be subjugating ourselves to hostile hegemons like China and the USA.
  • deleted 19d ago
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• llm_nerd 19d ago
  American exceptionalism is astonishing to see in the wild. The next phase of history is China's, and broadly Asia's. Everyone on the planet, but Americans, can see this. It is indisputable. Everyone else is finding a place within that new reality, and no one else wants to play along with American delusions that they're going to hold onto their place and everyone else are their supplicants. At this stage, the US should be begging every like-minded nation to be friends. Instead you elected a grotesque embarrassment farce that coddles up to two-bit clowns like Milei, while endlessly attacking allies. ROFL. Enjoy the coming crash. Yeah, we don't want to be under the "umbrella" of a terroristic idiocracy menace. You can become the worldwide pariah on your own, without our offering of legitimacy for your terrible behaviour.
• jeroenhd 19d ago
  Calling for Canada playing "under the wings of the US" is like calling for Ukraine to play "under the wings of Russia". The US government has repeatedly called for invasion of Canada. Canada would be insane not to find allies against the American threat.
• vrganj 19d ago
  You think the wings of the US are a larger league than the EU? The EU has built the world's largest trade zone, from Mercosur to South Korea, Japan and India to Canada. I believe they are currently outmaneuvering the rest of the world by quietly binding everyone to themselves while the US, Russia and China are caught up in their saber rattling. The US and China are fighting a 20th century contest of hard power. The EU is the only 21st century superpower of soft power.
  • bitcurious 19d ago
    > The EU has built the world's largest trade zone, from Mercosur to South Korea, Japan and India to Canada. Which of those agreements are fully ratified by the EU?
• Laurel1234 19d ago
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