5 ms·

> I don't think its fair to sort combatants into 'good/bad camps'. What's fair got to do with it? If there was ever a good/bad distinction between combatants,

by bdunbar 14y ago

> I don't think its fair to sort combatants into 'good/bad camps'. What's fair got to do with it? If there was ever a good/bad distinction between combatants, World War II was it. The Axis powers were evil, don't doubt it.

alanctgardner2 14y ago
History is written by the winners. The Nazis as an organization committed atrocities, yes, and their leadership was responsible for that. To the millions of boots on the ground - in battles, not the relatively small number implicated in concentration camps - there wasn't good/evil. There were people we should shoot, and people we shouldn't. Blurring that line with tricks like those described puts non-combatants at risk, which is pretty evil. Dropping a nuclear bomb on a civilian population is also pretty evil.
- lostlogin 14y ago
  Exactly, and tee blurring or lines is easier to spot when you leave te US and UK out of it (despite their frequent abuses of human rights). What about French Vichy actions? Russian? And countless other more minor countries. Don't get me wrong, the worst side lost, but that didn't come without controversial and wrong behavior. Thhe non political NGO aid organizations chose to be independent, and involving them causes the potential for far reaching harm, without their consent.
- DrJ 14y ago
  don't forget internment camps
- nikcub 14y ago
  > History is written by the winners. Overused cliche line that doesn't mean anything and isn't true. The Soviets won World War 2, they won it more than the USA won World War 2 and more than the British or anybody else won World War 2 but we re-wrote their history as evil scumbags who committed atrocities during the war.
  - bdunbar 14y ago
    > we re-wrote their history as evil scumbags who committed atrocities during the war. Re-writing was not needed. Stalin was an evil thug, just as bad in minor ways as Hitler.
    - nikcub 14y ago
      News of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers in Katyn in 1940[0] by the Soviet Union was hushed up by the Western Allies during the various 3-body conferences. It only came out after the war and when Cold War tension rose[1] Contrast this to when Dachau was liberated, where the western media were given an official tour and relayed pictures, stories and the news only days later. Eisenhower sent out a press release when Dachau was liberated[2], but kept quiet about Soviet atrocities. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre [1] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/katyn-massacre-hushed-stalin-slaughter-polish-officers-released-memos-show-article-1.1156361 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/katyn-massacre-hush... [2] http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/dachau-01.html http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/dachau-01.html
Dylan16807 14y ago
I don't know about that. The nazi leadership was evil, sure, but that doesn't automatically spread to their political allies.
- yozmsn 14y ago
  Do you have any idea what Japan did to the Chinese? Those atrocities rivaled the Nazi's and they didn't have the excuse of antisemitism, they were just terrible people, for example: gang rape to death was the norm for a Chinese woman under Japanese occupation. (Read up on it sometime you will be traumatized but it's worth it) Only the Italians can excuse themselves as not being any worse than anyone else in Europe at the time, who also handed over all their Jews to Germany for extermination. To all those people who are claiming that only the leadership is to blame for the Holocaust, it takes a lot of man-power and planning to transport and kill 11 million civilians, this wasn't done by a small minority of the German Army or SS, even if the camps were administered by only SS, rounding up the people and stuffing them in cattle cars takes a lot of man-power.
- bdunbar 14y ago
  Ignoring Italy - the slow little brother of the Axis Powers - the Japanese were fully as evil as the Nazis.
  - Dylan16807 14y ago
    I'll have to catch up on modern asian history.
  - robbiep 14y ago
    Italy under the fascists still did a pretty good job of shipping Jews off to concentration camps. Interestingly in Hungary the 'Arrow cross' party was the local fascist party in power and they were pretty horrible as well - the history about how the arrow cross higher-ups switched straight across from fascism to communism after the war is very interesting and well worth a read for anyone into history.. To a certain extent it was the same organisation in different clothing
- lostlogin 14y ago

by bdunbar 14y ago

alanctgardner2 14y ago

History is written by the winners. The Nazis as an organization committed atrocities, yes, and their leadership was responsible for that. To the millions of boots on the ground - in battles, not the relatively small number implicated in concentration camps - there wasn't good/evil. There were people we should shoot, and people we shouldn't. Blurring that line with tricks like those described puts non-combatants at risk, which is pretty evil. Dropping a nuclear bomb on a civilian population is also pretty evil.

lostlogin 14y ago
Exactly, and tee blurring or lines is easier to spot when you leave te US and UK out of it (despite their frequent abuses of human rights). What about French Vichy actions? Russian? And countless other more minor countries. Don't get me wrong, the worst side lost, but that didn't come without controversial and wrong behavior. Thhe non political NGO aid organizations chose to be independent, and involving them causes the potential for far reaching harm, without their consent.
DrJ 14y ago
don't forget internment camps
nikcub 14y ago
> History is written by the winners. Overused cliche line that doesn't mean anything and isn't true. The Soviets won World War 2, they won it more than the USA won World War 2 and more than the British or anybody else won World War 2 but we re-wrote their history as evil scumbags who committed atrocities during the war.
- bdunbar 14y ago
  > we re-wrote their history as evil scumbags who committed atrocities during the war. Re-writing was not needed. Stalin was an evil thug, just as bad in minor ways as Hitler.
  - nikcub 14y ago
    News of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers in Katyn in 1940[0] by the Soviet Union was hushed up by the Western Allies during the various 3-body conferences. It only came out after the war and when Cold War tension rose[1] Contrast this to when Dachau was liberated, where the western media were given an official tour and relayed pictures, stories and the news only days later. Eisenhower sent out a press release when Dachau was liberated[2], but kept quiet about Soviet atrocities. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre [1] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/katyn-massacre-hushed-stalin-slaughter-polish-officers-released-memos-show-article-1.1156361 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/katyn-massacre-hush... [2] http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/dachau-01.html http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dachau/dachau-01.html

Dylan16807 14y ago

I don't know about that. The nazi leadership was evil, sure, but that doesn't automatically spread to their political allies.

yozmsn 14y ago
Do you have any idea what Japan did to the Chinese? Those atrocities rivaled the Nazi's and they didn't have the excuse of antisemitism, they were just terrible people, for example: gang rape to death was the norm for a Chinese woman under Japanese occupation. (Read up on it sometime you will be traumatized but it's worth it) Only the Italians can excuse themselves as not being any worse than anyone else in Europe at the time, who also handed over all their Jews to Germany for extermination. To all those people who are claiming that only the leadership is to blame for the Holocaust, it takes a lot of man-power and planning to transport and kill 11 million civilians, this wasn't done by a small minority of the German Army or SS, even if the camps were administered by only SS, rounding up the people and stuffing them in cattle cars takes a lot of man-power.
bdunbar 14y ago
Ignoring Italy - the slow little brother of the Axis Powers - the Japanese were fully as evil as the Nazis.
- Dylan16807 14y ago
  I'll have to catch up on modern asian history.
- robbiep 14y ago
  Italy under the fascists still did a pretty good job of shipping Jews off to concentration camps. Interestingly in Hungary the 'Arrow cross' party was the local fascist party in power and they were pretty horrible as well - the history about how the arrow cross higher-ups switched straight across from fascism to communism after the war is very interesting and well worth a read for anyone into history.. To a certain extent it was the same organisation in different clothing
lostlogin 14y ago