4 ms·

It pays off instantly, because OpenAI/Anthropic can no longer see what I'm doing and that's worth a lot of money to me. If I am offloading some of my thought pr

It pays off instantly, because OpenAI/Anthropic can no longer see what I'm doing and that's worth a lot of money to me. If I am offloading some of my thought processes to a machine, I want to own that machine. And if I finetune the model, I can gain access to parts of thought space that are cordoned off by OpenAI/Anthropic/Alibaba/whomever due to their "alignment" efforts (i.e. alignment to the AI company rather than me). Otherwise, it's like if someone else owns a part of my mind and has a backdoor into my mind.

no-name-here 12d ago
You can't run recent openAI/Anthropic models locally anyway, so wouldn't a better comparison be a different provider running Qwen or similar model? As then you can also compare against the exact model you'd have locally and any different data privacy of that particular provider?
- txrx0000 12d ago
  Technically true, but the delay between local and closed frontier is only a few months. And individual sovereignty / digital bodily integrity is almost priceless.
  - selectodude 12d ago
    Local frontier costs a half million dollars to run locally in anything higher than basically ternary.
    - txrx0000 12d ago
      Okay, that's technically true again, but local mid-tier like Qwen3.8-27B is only a year behind the closed frontier. I'm personally willing to be behind by a year if it gives me mental sovereignty against the big AI companies. They are extremely misaligned with me.
- koito17 12d ago
  GP's point is about "sending tokens to someone else's computer" versus "keeping the tokens locally". I think model capabilities are secondary. In May of this year, I was running qwen3.6:35b-a3b on my MacBook (bought in 2024). Obviously not as fast as, say, running a model on Cerebras, but a year ago it wasn't really feasible to have a local model running on my 2024 laptop with vision support. (Concretely, I was passing apartment diagram pictures to Qwen and making it compare different apartments for which ones would feel the most spacious while optimizing for initial moving costs and other factors.) This was back in May and I wouldn't be surprised if there have been significant improvements since then. Overall, I think it's fair to compare a workflow like "use llama.cpp locally to upload some pictures and ask questions" to "open the ChatGPT app, upload pictures from your phone, and ask questions". Sure, you can't run a model like GPT-5.4 locally, but the model is mostly an implementation detail here. What a user will care about is: "when I go with the llama.cpp option, am I getting useful information from my conversations?"
  - v3ss0n 12d ago
    Deepseek 4 flash can run locally , and qwen 3.8-next-flash , they are already gpt 5.6 tier.
  - no-name-here 12d ago
    Wouldn't the better comparison still be against an AI provider with better privacy controls, especially if that's what someone cares about (even if they don't care about whether they're comparing a 35 billion param model vs a x trillion param model)?
    - koito17 12d ago
      Users generally have no way to verify that a third-party provider, even if they advertise themselves as privacy-focused, will adhere to their own terms. This is similar to the issue of privacy-focused VPN providers that claim to not log user activity (and then end up leaking user activity). You can get proof of ~P, but rarely proof of P, and often times the proof of ~P is due to police raids, data breaches, etc., not something of the provider's volition. What you can possibly audit is probably data sovereignty. For instance, I would not be surprised if Mistral's customers demand concrete evidence that their data is held within the European Union. But that is a distinct issue from training on input tokens.
- v3ss0n 12d ago
  You haven't tried DeekSeek v4 or GLM 5.3 or Qwen 3.8 Next? You are missing out a lot. Try that with Hermes or Opencode or Deekseek Harness , even Qwen 3.8 27b works really well for that kind of that. I just ask it to install windows as a vm on my linux and install vs Community 2019 on it , and then build a legacy vb 2019 project on it. and sleep When i wake up : It installs Qemu , setup a vm , inside vm download and install windows 10 on its own , clicking next next next as needed , typing in things , writing powershell , python scripts , that run automatically after install by baking into CD that includes ssh server , reboot , it logins into ssh , trigger pythons script that continue installation of vs 2019 community , which includes a driver that click the installation steps , installs nuget , install all depedencies and then build the project into exe after i woke up. That is with 100% pure local AI .
  - LargoLasskhyfv 12d ago
    Regarding DeepSeek, which I also like very much, have you tried https://reasonix.io https://reasonix.io ?
    - v3ss0n 12d ago
      Bot? Care to explain any difference vs DSH / OpenCode / Hermes ?
      - LargoLasskhyfv 11d ago
        Notbot! Are you unable to read, or what? Just fkn install it, and see how smooth it integrates?
  - ASalazarMX 11d ago
    I've tried the latest Qwen, and without Internet, it still can go into an incoherent loop if you ask for, say, song lyrics. TBH the commercial models might do that too if not for their internal tooling.
tyre 12d ago
I'm curious what people are sending to Claude that is so secret. Claude knows about my interior decorating, questions about light bulbs, curiosity about what the Galactic Empire was even trying to do, unpacking SCOTUS decisions, shoe trees, Fed inflation history, etc. What part of my brain is contained here? Sure, the conversations have back and forth (some have dozens of exchanges), but, like, that's not the secret to me. I don't think it can replicate me, and even if it could… okay? Are you worried they're going to target ads? That the government will steal something? What? Claude Code has information about my home server, but google or DDG would also have the broad strokes (torrents). I don't know. Maybe others are working on more sensitive things at home.
- poincareball 12d ago
  Tristan Buckmaster found out the hard way.
- octoberfranklin 12d ago
  I'm curious what people are sending to Claude that is so secret. The proof to the Navier-Stokes problem.
  - utopcell 12d ago
    I'm pretty sure they were sending a prompt for Claude to _find_ the Navier-Stokes proof, using ideas that have been publicly shared before online, but not necessarily used for the problem.
    - bix6 12d ago
      But are you pretty sure or actually sure?
      - utopcell 12d ago
        They obviously did not send the proof to Claude.
- 12d ago
jrecyclebin 12d ago
This was my thought as well. I have a local model monitoring my finances and personal wiki - things I wouldn't want Claude to touch - and the Qwen 3.5 9b handles it all just perfectly. I also needed a new device anyway - and having this much system memory to run virtual machines has been amazing. Am paying subscriptions as well tho lol.
- catchnear4321 12d ago
  Your last line is what drives the point home, though. Local isn’t strictly about NOT lab. It’s rapidly becoming apples (though not just macs) to oranges to compare the to. Which is why the premise is silly. To be underwater it would need to be a real comparison. It’s not, and the claude fartifact doesn’t make it so.
throwaway894345 12d ago
I’m very sympathetic to this point of view but I also can’t remotely afford the hardware required to get in the ballpark of Fable.
ChickeNES 12d ago
For me, I'm glad they train on my stuff if it improves the model. Hell, I've been using tons of muse-spark-1.3-contributor for this very reason (and because it's a decent model for a bargain basement price)
JKCalhoun 12d ago
Agree. As the meme/old-ad goes, "Running it on my own machine? Priceless!" Some of us get a weird thrill that we can actually do this. Mind-boggling time we live in.
cyanydeez 11d ago
Also, whatever your doing won't be at the whims of cloud providers; it won't fail because they decided to quantize your customer $ into a shittier model. Some how, _instability_ has gained valuable currency, so now we all act like the constant change of whatever is actually good for us. FOMO is just like breathing guys. That anxiety induced by tech culture constantly churning is healthy. In reality, these people churn for their own self worth and nothing else.
ASalazarMX 11d ago
> If I am offloading some of my thought processes to a machine "Offloading thought" sounds a lot better than "outsourcing thought", but the latter is what we're really doing. Offloading implies you thought it first and then gave it to the LLM, but we're only giving it the minimun so it can do most of the work in our place,

no-name-here 12d ago

You can't run recent openAI/Anthropic models locally anyway, so wouldn't a better comparison be a different provider running Qwen or similar model? As then you can also compare against the exact model you'd have locally and any different data privacy of that particular provider?

txrx0000 12d ago
Technically true, but the delay between local and closed frontier is only a few months. And individual sovereignty / digital bodily integrity is almost priceless.
- selectodude 12d ago
  Local frontier costs a half million dollars to run locally in anything higher than basically ternary.
  - txrx0000 12d ago
    Okay, that's technically true again, but local mid-tier like Qwen3.8-27B is only a year behind the closed frontier. I'm personally willing to be behind by a year if it gives me mental sovereignty against the big AI companies. They are extremely misaligned with me.
koito17 12d ago
GP's point is about "sending tokens to someone else's computer" versus "keeping the tokens locally". I think model capabilities are secondary. In May of this year, I was running qwen3.6:35b-a3b on my MacBook (bought in 2024). Obviously not as fast as, say, running a model on Cerebras, but a year ago it wasn't really feasible to have a local model running on my 2024 laptop with vision support. (Concretely, I was passing apartment diagram pictures to Qwen and making it compare different apartments for which ones would feel the most spacious while optimizing for initial moving costs and other factors.) This was back in May and I wouldn't be surprised if there have been significant improvements since then. Overall, I think it's fair to compare a workflow like "use llama.cpp locally to upload some pictures and ask questions" to "open the ChatGPT app, upload pictures from your phone, and ask questions". Sure, you can't run a model like GPT-5.4 locally, but the model is mostly an implementation detail here. What a user will care about is: "when I go with the llama.cpp option, am I getting useful information from my conversations?"
- v3ss0n 12d ago
  Deepseek 4 flash can run locally , and qwen 3.8-next-flash , they are already gpt 5.6 tier.
- no-name-here 12d ago
  Wouldn't the better comparison still be against an AI provider with better privacy controls, especially if that's what someone cares about (even if they don't care about whether they're comparing a 35 billion param model vs a x trillion param model)?
  - koito17 12d ago
    Users generally have no way to verify that a third-party provider, even if they advertise themselves as privacy-focused, will adhere to their own terms. This is similar to the issue of privacy-focused VPN providers that claim to not log user activity (and then end up leaking user activity). You can get proof of ~P, but rarely proof of P, and often times the proof of ~P is due to police raids, data breaches, etc., not something of the provider's volition. What you can possibly audit is probably data sovereignty. For instance, I would not be surprised if Mistral's customers demand concrete evidence that their data is held within the European Union. But that is a distinct issue from training on input tokens.
v3ss0n 12d ago
You haven't tried DeekSeek v4 or GLM 5.3 or Qwen 3.8 Next? You are missing out a lot. Try that with Hermes or Opencode or Deekseek Harness , even Qwen 3.8 27b works really well for that kind of that. I just ask it to install windows as a vm on my linux and install vs Community 2019 on it , and then build a legacy vb 2019 project on it. and sleep When i wake up : It installs Qemu , setup a vm , inside vm download and install windows 10 on its own , clicking next next next as needed , typing in things , writing powershell , python scripts , that run automatically after install by baking into CD that includes ssh server , reboot , it logins into ssh , trigger pythons script that continue installation of vs 2019 community , which includes a driver that click the installation steps , installs nuget , install all depedencies and then build the project into exe after i woke up. That is with 100% pure local AI .
- LargoLasskhyfv 12d ago
  Regarding DeepSeek, which I also like very much, have you tried https://reasonix.io https://reasonix.io ?
  - v3ss0n 12d ago
    Bot? Care to explain any difference vs DSH / OpenCode / Hermes ?
    - LargoLasskhyfv 11d ago
      Notbot! Are you unable to read, or what? Just fkn install it, and see how smooth it integrates?
- ASalazarMX 11d ago
  I've tried the latest Qwen, and without Internet, it still can go into an incoherent loop if you ask for, say, song lyrics. TBH the commercial models might do that too if not for their internal tooling.

tyre 12d ago

I'm curious what people are sending to Claude that is so secret. Claude knows about my interior decorating, questions about light bulbs, curiosity about what the Galactic Empire was even trying to do, unpacking SCOTUS decisions, shoe trees, Fed inflation history, etc. What part of my brain is contained here? Sure, the conversations have back and forth (some have dozens of exchanges), but, like, that's not the secret to me. I don't think it can replicate me, and even if it could… okay? Are you worried they're going to target ads? That the government will steal something? What? Claude Code has information about my home server, but google or DDG would also have the broad strokes (torrents). I don't know. Maybe others are working on more sensitive things at home.

poincareball 12d ago
Tristan Buckmaster found out the hard way.
octoberfranklin 12d ago
I'm curious what people are sending to Claude that is so secret. The proof to the Navier-Stokes problem.
- utopcell 12d ago
  I'm pretty sure they were sending a prompt for Claude to _find_ the Navier-Stokes proof, using ideas that have been publicly shared before online, but not necessarily used for the problem.
  - bix6 12d ago
    But are you pretty sure or actually sure?
    - utopcell 12d ago
      They obviously did not send the proof to Claude.
12d ago

jrecyclebin 12d ago

This was my thought as well. I have a local model monitoring my finances and personal wiki - things I wouldn't want Claude to touch - and the Qwen 3.5 9b handles it all just perfectly. I also needed a new device anyway - and having this much system memory to run virtual machines has been amazing. Am paying subscriptions as well tho lol.

catchnear4321 12d ago
Your last line is what drives the point home, though. Local isn’t strictly about NOT lab. It’s rapidly becoming apples (though not just macs) to oranges to compare the to. Which is why the premise is silly. To be underwater it would need to be a real comparison. It’s not, and the claude fartifact doesn’t make it so.

throwaway894345 12d ago

I’m very sympathetic to this point of view but I also can’t remotely afford the hardware required to get in the ballpark of Fable.

ChickeNES 12d ago

For me, I'm glad they train on my stuff if it improves the model. Hell, I've been using tons of muse-spark-1.3-contributor for this very reason (and because it's a decent model for a bargain basement price)

JKCalhoun 12d ago

Agree. As the meme/old-ad goes, "Running it on my own machine? Priceless!" Some of us get a weird thrill that we can actually do this. Mind-boggling time we live in.

cyanydeez 11d ago

Also, whatever your doing won't be at the whims of cloud providers; it won't fail because they decided to quantize your customer $ into a shittier model. Some how, _instability_ has gained valuable currency, so now we all act like the constant change of whatever is actually good for us. FOMO is just like breathing guys. That anxiety induced by tech culture constantly churning is healthy. In reality, these people churn for their own self worth and nothing else.

ASalazarMX 11d ago

> If I am offloading some of my thought processes to a machine "Offloading thought" sounds a lot better than "outsourcing thought", but the latter is what we're really doing. Offloading implies you thought it first and then gave it to the LLM, but we're only giving it the minimun so it can do most of the work in our place,