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Did anybody think Grumpism was going to go somewhere other than here? It's merely been the spite choice the whole time - a way for economic losers to stick thei

Did anybody think Grumpism was going to go somewhere other than here? It's merely been the spite choice the whole time - a way for economic losers to stick their thumbs in the eyes of people who had been mildly successful. Pure crab bucket mentality, now with $40T more in the hole - and still no actual solutions to the problems we are facing. But that certainly doesn't stop those problems from being brought up to rally support for the next con job. And the people at the top certainly aren't suffering! We have basically squandered the advantages our grandparents sacrificed for, to satisfy some kind of collective ego based around American exceptionalism and ignorant fundamentalism. (edit: I guess a lot of people still aren't ready to hear it)

rayiner 12d ago
Obama sped up the rate of growth of the debt around 2010 and the percentage growth annually has been consistent since then (i.e. linear on the log scale): https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-debt-does-the-us-have/country/united-states https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-debt-does-the-us-have/.... Not even counting the jumps in response to the 2008 recession and COVID.
- BoiledCabbage 12d ago
  Is this serious? It's because the country went through the great recession and was attempting to pull out and avoid financial collapse. Look at Revenue per year as a % of GDP and look at Expenses per year as a % of GDP. It's pretty clear. Expenses went up avoiding a depression which was done successfully, and revenue dropped due to the falling economy. The president was handed a collapsing economy and saved it. The issue is the other party that keeps getting handed great economies since the late 90s and fails to do anything but make the problem worse.
  - Frieren 12d ago
    To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. If Democrats win they are going to be blamed for being the "bad guys" for increasing taxes, controlling inflation and trying to get the economy back to shape. For Republicans to burn down the economy during their mandates has paid of as the next government needs to focus on firefighting instead of doing the good that it could have been done.
    - rayiner 12d ago
      > To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. The last small-government Republican was Herbert Hoover. Reagan paid lip service to the concept, but he maintained high spending levels to keep former FDR democrats in the fold.
    - stdatomic 12d ago
      They'll just say economy was doomed because of Biden anyway, and that it's not their fault.
    - masklinn 12d ago
      > To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. Why would you ever think they’d be interested in doing any of that? A non-insignificant fraction of the gop wants to collapse the US entirely.
      - immibis2 11d ago
        And then nobody will vote for them ever again, and it'll be a utopia after the rebuild. Playing the long game.
        cindyllm 11d ago
        [dead]
        dctoedt 11d ago
        > And then nobody will vote for them ever again, and it'll be a utopia after the rebuild. Playing the long game. (Sarcasm noted.) There was a bitter joke about Islamist takeovers by elections after the Arab Spring: "One man [literally], one vote, one time."
        masklinn 11d ago
  - rayiner 12d ago
    [dead]
  - jsisto 12d ago
    Yes bailing out the banks was great for the common man. This is sarcasm
    - jmye 12d ago
      [dead]
- caycep 12d ago
  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/gfdegdq188s https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/gfdegdq188s Debt per GDP/size of US economy is more useful. Debt/GDP has the 2008 jump as the Obama Admin tried to (but not nearly enough) stimulate out of the housing crisis. Debt/GDP looks flat until 2020. 2008 and 2020 jumps make sense in the setting the 2008 crisis and COVID which was effectively a recession assuming you believe in Keynesian economics. Paying for US debt if you are the US is cheap when interest rates low. Trump/Bessent/Elon have been doing everything they can to drive up inflation, so now interest rates are necessarily going higher...
  - Jtsummers 12d ago
    > Debt/GDP has the 2008 jump as the Obama Admin tried to Remember that 2008 was still Bush, Obama didn't become president until 2009.
    - caycep 12d ago
      ah true, bipartisan stimulus then!
      - pdoege 11d ago
        Well, Trump was President in 2020. Biden started January 2021. Both of your examples show the aims and actions of the Republican Party. It isn’t bipartisan.
        caycep 10d ago
        that was supposed to be a joke...
- khriss 12d ago
  Let's see, the biggest increases of debts under Democrats have been during the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression And the biggest worldwide pandemic in a century. On the other hand, the biggest debt increases under Republican presidents have been to A) Start and fight multi trillion dollar wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and B) To cut taxes for billionaires and corporations.
  - Jtsummers 12d ago
    And probably C) start a multi trillion dollar war in Iran.
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 11d ago
      With a $1.5 trillion ~bribe~ rebate to keep them in power.
- mindslight 11d ago
  Cool story bro? I remember a whole lot of people who complained about the debt during the Obama years (I was right there with them), who are now completely silent or even full-throated support. Perhaps a few of the more "honest" ones you might be able to get a "I don't like everything he does" out of them. If I recall though, you personally did support Obama? Which would make your point doubly moot. Also note that my condemnation wasn't just about the debt per se, but rather the decreasing creditworthiness. Say what you will about Obama (I certainly have), but at least he kept up relations with our allies so they saw us as a strong partner worthy of holding their wealth.
  - rayiner 11d ago
    > If I recall though, you personally did support Obama? Which would make your point doubly moot. I did personally support Obama. I still think he was a pretty good President! I’m simply describing the chart I linked to of debt levels on a log scale. Obama increased the slope of debt growth around 2010 and it has stayed around the same slope, with a vertical jump during covid. The point is that the debt growth rate isn’t a Trump thing. It’s the “new normal” since Obama, Trump, Biden, and Trump again.
    - mindslight 11d ago
      So you were "simply" responding to one small part of my comment, with a narrative that sane-washes the whole larger picture. If you personally don't care about the debt, that's fine. But there are a lot of people who had claimed to, who have now turned their denial circuits up to 11. My "$40T more in the hole" aside was aimed at them.

rayiner 12d ago

Obama sped up the rate of growth of the debt around 2010 and the percentage growth annually has been consistent since then (i.e. linear on the log scale): https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-debt-does-the-us-have/country/united-states https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-debt-does-the-us-have/.... Not even counting the jumps in response to the 2008 recession and COVID.

BoiledCabbage 12d ago
Is this serious? It's because the country went through the great recession and was attempting to pull out and avoid financial collapse. Look at Revenue per year as a % of GDP and look at Expenses per year as a % of GDP. It's pretty clear. Expenses went up avoiding a depression which was done successfully, and revenue dropped due to the falling economy. The president was handed a collapsing economy and saved it. The issue is the other party that keeps getting handed great economies since the late 90s and fails to do anything but make the problem worse.
- Frieren 12d ago
  To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. If Democrats win they are going to be blamed for being the "bad guys" for increasing taxes, controlling inflation and trying to get the economy back to shape. For Republicans to burn down the economy during their mandates has paid of as the next government needs to focus on firefighting instead of doing the good that it could have been done.
  - rayiner 12d ago
    > To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. The last small-government Republican was Herbert Hoover. Reagan paid lip service to the concept, but he maintained high spending levels to keep former FDR democrats in the fold.
  - stdatomic 12d ago
    They'll just say economy was doomed because of Biden anyway, and that it's not their fault.
  - masklinn 12d ago
    > To some extend I hope that the Republican party wins the next election. They should be the ones fixing the economy, raising taxes, and doing something responsible for once. Why would you ever think they’d be interested in doing any of that? A non-insignificant fraction of the gop wants to collapse the US entirely.
    - immibis2 11d ago
      And then nobody will vote for them ever again, and it'll be a utopia after the rebuild. Playing the long game.
      - cindyllm 11d ago
        [dead]
      - dctoedt 11d ago
        > And then nobody will vote for them ever again, and it'll be a utopia after the rebuild. Playing the long game. (Sarcasm noted.) There was a bitter joke about Islamist takeovers by elections after the Arab Spring: "One man [literally], one vote, one time."
        masklinn 11d ago
- rayiner 12d ago
  [dead]
- jsisto 12d ago
  Yes bailing out the banks was great for the common man. This is sarcasm
  - jmye 12d ago
    [dead]
caycep 12d ago
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/gfdegdq188s https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/gfdegdq188s Debt per GDP/size of US economy is more useful. Debt/GDP has the 2008 jump as the Obama Admin tried to (but not nearly enough) stimulate out of the housing crisis. Debt/GDP looks flat until 2020. 2008 and 2020 jumps make sense in the setting the 2008 crisis and COVID which was effectively a recession assuming you believe in Keynesian economics. Paying for US debt if you are the US is cheap when interest rates low. Trump/Bessent/Elon have been doing everything they can to drive up inflation, so now interest rates are necessarily going higher...
- Jtsummers 12d ago
  > Debt/GDP has the 2008 jump as the Obama Admin tried to Remember that 2008 was still Bush, Obama didn't become president until 2009.
  - caycep 12d ago
    ah true, bipartisan stimulus then!
    - pdoege 11d ago
      Well, Trump was President in 2020. Biden started January 2021. Both of your examples show the aims and actions of the Republican Party. It isn’t bipartisan.
      - caycep 10d ago
        that was supposed to be a joke...
khriss 12d ago
Let's see, the biggest increases of debts under Democrats have been during the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression And the biggest worldwide pandemic in a century. On the other hand, the biggest debt increases under Republican presidents have been to A) Start and fight multi trillion dollar wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and B) To cut taxes for billionaires and corporations.
- Jtsummers 12d ago
  And probably C) start a multi trillion dollar war in Iran.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 11d ago
    With a $1.5 trillion ~bribe~ rebate to keep them in power.
mindslight 11d ago
Cool story bro? I remember a whole lot of people who complained about the debt during the Obama years (I was right there with them), who are now completely silent or even full-throated support. Perhaps a few of the more "honest" ones you might be able to get a "I don't like everything he does" out of them. If I recall though, you personally did support Obama? Which would make your point doubly moot. Also note that my condemnation wasn't just about the debt per se, but rather the decreasing creditworthiness. Say what you will about Obama (I certainly have), but at least he kept up relations with our allies so they saw us as a strong partner worthy of holding their wealth.
- rayiner 11d ago
  > If I recall though, you personally did support Obama? Which would make your point doubly moot. I did personally support Obama. I still think he was a pretty good President! I’m simply describing the chart I linked to of debt levels on a log scale. Obama increased the slope of debt growth around 2010 and it has stayed around the same slope, with a vertical jump during covid. The point is that the debt growth rate isn’t a Trump thing. It’s the “new normal” since Obama, Trump, Biden, and Trump again.
  - mindslight 11d ago
    So you were "simply" responding to one small part of my comment, with a narrative that sane-washes the whole larger picture. If you personally don't care about the debt, that's fine. But there are a lot of people who had claimed to, who have now turned their denial circuits up to 11. My "$40T more in the hole" aside was aimed at them.